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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2019, 08:17:21 pm »
Kathy you are a learned Lady.  Yes, Iran believes the 3 spiritual warriors, indestructible warriors, will appear, destroy all non Muslims on the planet.  Then and only then will there be peace on earth when we are all killed off leaving the shining believers behind.

In the Koran, all infidels must be destroyed for peace on earth.  Some crafty Muslims will point to an early saying in the Koran which say peace to thy neighbor, however the Koran states in the later part that infidels must be destroyed and further states the later part of the Koran has President, authorities  when conflicts appear earlier in the book.

I point this out due to 911, I saw On TV an Arab quoting the earlier peaceful saying in the Koran.  The arab was deliberately misleading all who watched on TV as he made no mention of the fact the later sayings have total authority.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 08:30:28 pm by van from Arkansas »
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2019, 10:55:54 pm »
Don?t forget Iran took our embassy unarmed employees at gun point and held hostage until Reagan took office.  This action generated the today 12vers which is distinct from the spiritual Twelver, descendent of Mohammed  Kathy talked about.  The Shia, Iran, are the radical ones, supporting the terrorizing extremest that send rockets into Israel and Yemen populated civilian areas.  The Shia, Iran, believe Jesus will assist Mahdi in destroying evil.

The saying from Israel: we protect our children with our rockets whereas hamas protects their rockets with their children.  Hamas surrounds their rockets with their own children so Israel won?t attack.  Israel said, when hamas lives their children as much as we, Israel, do, there will be no more war.  To hamas their own children are expendable.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 09:35:46 pm by van from Arkansas »
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Offline vambuli78

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2019, 11:26:13 am »
Idk politic sometimes making me vomit guys. (
sad

Online kathyp

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2019, 11:59:51 am »
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Idk politic sometimes making me vomit guys.

I think that happens to all of us!   :grin:
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2019, 05:42:41 pm »
Don?t forget Iran took our embassy unarmed employees at gun point and held hostage until Reagan took office.  This action generated the today 12vers which is distinct from the spiritual Twelver, descendent of Mohammed  Kathy talked about.  The Shia, Iran, are the radical ones, supporting the terrorizing extremest that send rockets into Israel and Yemen populated civilian areas.  The Shia, Iran, believe Jesus will assist Mahdi in destroying evil.

The saying from Israel: we protect our children with our rockets whereas hamas protects their rockets with their children.  Hamas surrounds their rockets with their own children so Israel won?t attack.  Israel said, when hamas loves their children as much as we, Israel, do, there will be no more war.  To hamas their own children are expendable.

Correct to my spelling: hamas lives their children corrected to hamas LOVES
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Offline northwesterner

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2019, 07:10:19 pm »
Don?t forget Iran took our embassy unarmed employees at gun point and held hostage until Reagan took office.  This action generated the today 12vers which is distinct from the spiritual Twelver, descendent of Mohammed  Kathy talked about.  The Shia, Iran, are the radical ones, supporting the terrorizing extremest that send rockets into Israel and Yemen populated civilian areas.  The Shia, Iran, believe Jesus will assist Mahdi in destroying evil.

The saying from Israel: we protect our children with our rockets whereas hamas protects their rockets with their children.  Hamas surrounds their rockets with their own children so Israel won?t attack.  Israel said, when hamas lives their children as much as we, Israel, do, there will be no more war.  To hamas their own children are expendable.
I think that is probably correct but the nagging doubt is.... if I was up against such a sophisticated army, navy and air-force that uses overwhelming indiscriminate force what would I/you do? Why can't they just talk to each other!
N/West

Online kathyp

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2019, 09:30:39 pm »
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if I was up against such a sophisticated army, navy and air-force that uses overwhelming indiscriminate force what would I/you do? Why can't they just talk to each other!

who has a sophisticated military that uses indiscriminate force? 

They can't talk to each other because one side is sworn to annihilate the other side. (assuming you are talking about Israel and Iran)

If you look at those countries that have talked with and come to an agreement with Israel, there is peace.  In no case has Israel been the aggressor in any of the conflicts other than against the Brits, and even that was limited. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline northwesterner

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2019, 06:03:22 pm »
Normal man in the street??
Yes, if they believe the quran, whether in Tehran or Atlanta.
The jaw jaw has been used, and is still going on. The war war may be the only successful thing left. I hope not, but if it is, I would like to see more unmanned air power used, rather than 55,000 dead Americans, unknown number of English, S. Koreans, Aussies, and others, and many thousands more wounded, like 'nam. I think we should stay out of the country and let the missiles and bombs do the work, if war is the only answer.
If you believe using bombs drones etc is the answer ask the Israelis. They have a superior military to the Arabs, the trouble is the underdog then reverts to terrorist acts, as in planes, trains and buildings in someone's homeland. Its the syndrome of "I've got nothing to loose, I may as well go out with a bang"   

Online kathyp

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2019, 06:32:20 pm »
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If you believe using bombs drones etc is the answer ask the Israelis. They have a superior military to the Arabs, the trouble is the underdog then reverts to terrorist acts, as in planes, trains and buildings in someone's homeland. Its the syndrome of "I've got nothing to loose, I may as well go out with a bang"   

I think you have it a little backward.  The "underdog" as you call them is not resorting to terrorist attacks.  It is what they do by default.  The fact that the Isralies have not wiped them out is a testament to their restraint.  No other country would put up with constant attacks and not answer with overwhelming force at some point. 

Israel is in their homeland and they have a right to protect it both as a matter of historical occupation and international law.  The fact that other countries don't like them and don't think they have a right to exist, might be the first place to start if you think you want peace in the area. 

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline northwesterner

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2019, 06:38:05 pm »
Quote
if I was up against such a sophisticated army, navy and air-force that uses overwhelming indiscriminate force what would I/you do? Why can't they just talk to each other!

who has a sophisticated military that uses indiscriminate force? 

They can't talk to each other because one side is sworn to annihilate the other side. (assuming you are talking about Israel and Iran)

If you look at those countries that have talked with and come to an agreement with Israel, there is peace.  In no case has Israel been the aggressor in any of the conflicts other than against the Brits, and even that was limited.
So your greatest ally in the middle east had a Prime minister Menachem Begin who was a terrorist that hung serving British soldiers. The Israeli government should contemplate the meaning of 'Pot and Black' when referring to terrorists.
No not Iran. Israel complies with International Law? What about the settlements on the west bank?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 07:08:50 pm by northwesterner »

Online kathyp

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2019, 07:51:05 pm »
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So your greatest ally in the middle east had a Prime minister Menachem Begin who was a terrorist that hung serving British soldiers. The Israeli government should contemplate the meaning of 'Pot and Black' when referring to terrorists.
No not Iran. Israel complies with International Law? What about the settlements on the west bank?

My sympathy is with Israel.  the Brits didn't keep up their end of the bargain so the Isralies had a few independent actions.  Since I belong to a nation that did the same, I can't find fault with them for what they did.   :wink:

As for the West Bank, it should never have been opened to "Palestinians" after Israel was attacked in '67.  Israel breaks no law by building there.  They are legally the occupying force in the area.  There are many more "Palestinians" in the West Bank than Isralies.  If Israel had not been attacked in '67, that area would have been administered by Jordan, but the Arabs lost, so...

I think it was a mistake for Israel to let any of them stay in the area, or to re-enter Jerusalem until the Arab countries recognized Israels right to exist and swore off attacking them. 



They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline iddee

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2019, 08:27:47 pm »
""If you believe using bombs drones etc is the answer ask the Israelis. They have a superior military to the Arabs, the trouble is the underdog then reverts to terrorist acts, as in planes, trains and buildings in someone's homeland. Its the syndrome of "I've got nothing to loose, I may as well go out with a bang" "

As Kathy said, you have that backwards. If they had not begin with terrorist attacks, we would have no need for war.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline northwesterner

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2019, 03:43:38 am »

My sympathy is with Israel.  the Brits didn't keep up their end of the bargain so the Isralies had a few independent actions.  Since I belong to a nation that did the same, I can't find fault with them for what they did.

So you hang two serving soldiers, then hang the decomposing bodies from trees, booby-trapping them with anti personnel mines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sergeants_affair
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 08:27:52 am by northwesterner »

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2019, 08:01:57 am »
That was 72 years ago. None of the people involved are alive today. What is your point?
Jim Altmiller

Offline northwesterner

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2019, 08:30:51 am »
That was 72 years ago. None of the people involved are alive today. What is your point?
Jim Altmiller

The point being, the government still has the same ethos as the original terrorists.

Offline iddee

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2019, 09:25:14 am »
So do you condemn all countries that have a few terrorists equally, or do you pick and choose which ones to condemn?
It wasn't the Israeli gov. that did that.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Online kathyp

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2019, 11:10:13 am »
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The point being, the government still has the same ethos as the original terrorists.

That is a statement that demands evidence. 

I understand that there were things done then that we do not condone today.  There were things done in every era and every war that we look back on and do not condone in light of todays standards.  as Iddee points out, that was many years ago. 

I submit that if the ethos had not changed, the "Palestinians" would be trying to exist on a sheet of glass, as would Iraq, Syria, and Iran.  Again, no other country would suffer the repeated attacks and show as much restraint as Israel does, having the capabilities that Israel has. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2019, 11:29:04 am »
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The point being, the government still has the same ethos as the original terrorists.

That is a statement that demands evidence. 

I understand that there were things done then that we do not condone today.  There were things done in every era and every war that we look back on and do not condone in light of todays standards.  as Iddee points out, that was many years ago. 

I submit that if the ethos had not changed, the "Palestinians" would be trying to exist on a sheet of glass, as would Iraq, Syria, and Iran.  Again, no other country would suffer the repeated attacks and show as much restraint as Israel does, having the capabilities that Israel has.

Good point Kathy Israel has been very patient, especially considering what the have suffered for the past 4000 years.  As a friend recently said, For 4000 years the enemy and all hell have seek to wipe the children Israel off the face of the earth.  The Pharos tried to drive them into the sea. The Assyrians tried to desecrate them., Babylon tried to obliterate them. Rome tried to crush them. Hitler tried to annihilate them. Stalin tried to oppress them. The terrorist have sworn they will  destroy them from the face of the earth. The Pharos have gone, The Assyrians have perished, Babylon has fallen, Rome has crumbled, Hitler is gone, Stalin is no more, and terroir shall be no more but the Nation of Israel lives, because The God of Israel lives and the Messiah of Israel lives. Believe it or not.

Online kathyp

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2019, 12:27:14 pm »
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Good point Kathy Israel has been very patient, especially considering what the have suffered for the past 4000 years.

Just sticking with the 20th century they won multiple wars started against them with the idea of wiping them out.  They took territories that they rightfully won, and then gave back many of them.  They did not push their advantage and go after the people who started the wars against them. 

There are several million people around them who are happy to be used as tools, but who should thank God every day that they have not been wiped out. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline northwesterner

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2019, 01:00:06 pm »
There are several million people around them who are happy to be used as tools, but who should thank God every day that they have not been wiped out.

And why do you think it has not happened, yet? I think you know the reason! Eventually if they felt it was in their interest.......
You may well wonder why some politicians have said the best thing for peace in the middle east is......relocate Israel into the US. Bit extreme I would think. The phrase "wishing it on my worst enemy" springs to mind.
northwesterner