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Offline northwesterner

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Iran what next?
« on: June 22, 2019, 08:37:12 pm »
Hi All
President Trump seems to have pulled back on his threat to Iran or is this part of his strategy to unnerve them? Will we be heading for another oil crisis like 1973?
Northwesterner

Offline Acebird

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2019, 08:33:02 am »
Trump is predictable.  He threatens and then cowers.  He has no military expertise nor does he have any advisers with military expertise and he wouldn't take their advise if he did.  This country is in the worst shape that it has ever been for defense let alone offence.  What Trump has is constant gibbering in his ear from right wing war mongers.
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Offline northwesterner

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2019, 08:55:49 am »
Acebird

It seems as though he is keeping them on edge wondering what is going to happen next. Also he is reaching out to N Korea with his recent letter, in that case jaw jaw is better than war war. So lets give him some credit. Lets hope the same may apply with Iran. Unfortunately in Iran's case he has Israel prodding his backside.

northwesterner

Offline Acebird

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2019, 09:19:18 am »
Israel is no different then the US.  Not all the people in Israel are right wingers.  Very few are looking for war.
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2019, 11:54:49 am »
Ace,
I really don?t believe you believe all that nonsense. President Trump made numerous promises during his campaign and has completed many of them and has drastically improved our economy beyond our wildest dreams. Lowest unemployment since the 60s. Major tax reform. I was shocked when I did my taxes this year. I had to keep questioning my tax accountant over and over again, literally.
He has made America great again and saved us from Hillary finishing up obama?s Socialist/communistic dream for America.
My one brother is just like you. He is a contractor and was making great money until 2008, lost a half million dollar home and was barely making ends meet until 2016. Now he has more work than he can handle but he is still a blind democratic believing all of the media nonsense.
Jim Altmiller

Online iddee

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2019, 01:04:23 pm »
Trump makes promises to Iran, Mexico, China as to what he will do unless they comply with his wishes. Yes, he backs off when they comply. He told Iran they will not be spanked. If they hit the US or it's properties, he will destroy them. I think he will do it. He told Mexico to stop the caravan or he would install tariffs. They sent out their national guard to stop the caravan, and are now offering illegals flights home for $1.00. I didn't think even Ace was dense enough to not see that.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline northwesterner

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2019, 04:11:13 pm »
Trump makes promises to Iran, Mexico, China as to what he will do unless they comply with his wishes. Yes, he backs off when they comply. He told Iran they will not be spanked. If they hit the US or it's properties, he will destroy them. I think he will do it. He told Mexico to stop the caravan or he would install tariffs. They sent out their national guard to stop the caravan, and are now offering illegals flights home for $1.00. I didn't think even Ace was dense enough to not see that.
The carrot and stick will work but you need to use good judgment of when and where to apply. As to destroying them I don't see that happening, to 'destroy' a country these days is not an option the consequences for the US could be horrific. Terrorists have learned how to use planes to destroy buildings, if they get hold of chemicals/bugs it would not bear thinking about. Much better a very severe rap to the knuckles. 

northwesterner

Offline Acebird

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2019, 08:10:40 am »
What Iddee doesn't understand is that unemployment figures don't mean much to the middle class that is working two jobs and can barely live like their parents did.  Funneling money to the rich does not help those that are not rich.
In every deal that Trump has made with our ENEMIES he has given away control and got nothing and put us in a future bind.
Jim, your brother is living in the real world.  You are not.  You and me are protected from the ups and downs because we are on government entitlements.  That is until the darn fool makes a mess of that.  Your windfall tax relief will turn into a hole in your pocket in just a few years so I would hold back on the glee.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2019, 07:01:38 am »
Trump makes promises to Iran, Mexico, China as to what he will do unless they comply with his wishes. Yes, he backs off when they comply. He told Iran they will not be spanked. If they hit the US or it's properties, he will destroy them. I think he will do it. He told Mexico to stop the caravan or he would install tariffs. They sent out their national guard to stop the caravan, and are now offering illegals flights home for $1.00. I didn't think even Ace was dense enough to not see that.
The carrot and stick will work but you need to use good judgment of when and where to apply. As to destroying them I don't see that happening, to 'destroy' a country these days is not an option the consequences for the US could be horrific. Terrorists have learned how to use planes to destroy buildings, if they get hold of chemicals/bugs it would not bear thinking about. Much better a very severe rap to the knuckles. 

northwesterner
But what do you do if they don't give a dannn about the stick or knuckles? Just back off and write a letter?

cider
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2019, 03:42:06 pm »
Cider, good question.  Iranians believe that the Creator is own their side, further the US is the great devil.  Those people don?t care if they live or die, life has only one meaning, one purpose and USA is not part of the their divine purpose, we are infidels which the word originated from infidelity.  Not a nice word.  So they chant DEATH TO AMERICA in the streets and they really mean it.  A rap to the knee will only strengthen.

We are not considered people, we, the USA, are the devils children in their eyes.
Van
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Offline northwesterner

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2019, 04:28:29 pm »
Cider, good question.  Iranians believe that the Creator is own their side, further the US is the great devil.  Those people don?t care if they live or die, life has only one meaning, one purpose and USA is not part of the their divine purpose, we are infidels which the word originated from infidelity.  Not a nice word.  So they chant DEATH TO AMERICA in the streets and they really mean it.  A rap to the knee will only strengthen.

We are not considered people, we, the USA, are the devils children in their eyes.
Van
So do you believe you should act like the devils children as President Trump suggests? And destroy the country and its innocent people?

Northwesterner

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2019, 04:48:28 pm »
Destroy a country, that is insane.  No I do not believe that.  I do not wish harm to any country, but realize history informs us the future is otherwise.  What I do believe is: there is PARADOX with Iran.  Unfortunately sometimes a person has to be killed to prevent further killing.

As far back in time as a person wishes, Cain will always be there.  And if Cain lives, he will walk into the desert, he will create cities which become a country, which chat in the streets DEATH TO ABLE.

BTW what innocence people?  The innocent people you are referring are chanting DEATH to my country.  Does that sound innocent????  Wishing death to 350 million folks?  Think of who is innocent here???  You have it backwards.  Maybe if they were chanty death to the U.K., you might develope a different attitude without bias, see the light and stand with your ally, directing guilt where it properly belongs,,,,,,to those wishing DEATH to 350 million innocent peace loving folks, my country the great USA.
Blessings
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 05:18:08 pm by van from Arkansas »
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Online iddee

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2019, 05:18:35 pm »
Northwesterner, do you really consider people to be innocent when they chant in the streets and then go home and pray for the annihilation of all the people of another country? I wouldn't. I do think it is OK for us to kill any and all people who are wanting to and trying to kill us.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2019, 05:28:02 pm »
Cider, good question.  Iranians believe that the Creator is own their side, further the US is the great devil.  Those people don?t care if they live or die, life has only one meaning, one purpose and USA is not part of the their divine purpose, we are infidels which the word originated from infidelity.  Not a nice word.  So they chant DEATH TO AMERICA in the streets and they really mean it.  A rap to the knee will only strengthen.

We are not considered people, we, the USA, are the devils children in their eyes.
Van
So do you believe you should act like the devils children as  President Trump suggests? And destroy the country and its innocent people?

Northwesterner

What happen NW:  the USA was your ally in WW1, again in WW2 we came to your aid.  My own close family paid with limb and life to come to your aid.  Aren?t we still your friend?  I guarantee you, if anybody messes with the UK, the USA would be there for you.  We were in the past, we would be in the future if needed.  Aren?t we friends anymore???
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2019, 02:41:00 am »
Trump is predictable.  He threatens and then cowers.  He has no military expertise nor does he have any advisers with military expertise and he wouldn't take their advise if he did.  This country is in the worst shape that it has ever been for defense let alone offence.  What Trump has is constant gibbering in his ear from right wing war mongers.

''nor does he have any advisers with military expertise ''

No because is it possible that the last democratic REGIME, fired or ran off many of the expert generals, admirals, etc. who did not play ball?  You can bet your boots that things are in order now! We have a real Commander-In-Chief in office, who knows how to get things done, and says he loves this country, and is proving it.  Who in just 2.5 years after being sworn in  is keeping his promises in spite of all the odds that are opposed and against him, yet, the opposition seem to hate him even the more for it? Even the more? Perhaps the opposition does not want America to prosper, perhaps the opposition does not want America to have a strong economy and wants to keep our citizens both majority and minority
 oppressed? Perhaps the opposition likes it better when things go the way of Venezuela and continue to elect bucket heads?
Hum
 

Offline northwesterner

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2019, 05:42:06 am »
Destroy a country, that is insane.  No I do not believe that.  I do not wish harm to any country, but realize history informs us the future is otherwise.  What I do believe is: there is PARADOX with Iran.  Unfortunately sometimes a person has to be killed to prevent further killing.

As far back in time as a person wishes, Cain will always be there.  And if Cain lives, he will walk into the desert, he will create cities which become a country, which chat in the streets DEATH TO ABLE.

BTW what innocence people?  The innocent people you are referring are chanting DEATH to my country.  Does that sound innocent????  Wishing death to 350 million folks?  Think of who is innocent here???  You have it backwards.  Maybe if they were chanty death to the U.K., you might develope a different attitude without bias, see the light and stand with your ally, directing guilt where it properly belongs,,,,,,to those wishing DEATH to 350 million innocent peace loving folks, my country the great USA.
Blessings
Do you seriously believe the normal man in the street be it Tehrān or Atlanta want to destroy each others country? It is politicians and religious leaders who brain wash certain elements of the population to agree to that. It should always be more jaw jaw than war war first.

N/W

Online iddee

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2019, 07:49:25 am »
Normal man in the street??
Yes, if they believe the quran, whether in Tehran or Atlanta.
The jaw jaw has been used, and is still going on. The war war may be the only successful thing left. I hope not, but if it is, I would like to see more unmanned air power used, rather than 55,000 dead Americans, unknown number of English, S. Koreans, Aussies, and others, and many thousands more wounded, like 'nam. I think we should stay out of the country and let the missiles and bombs do the work, if war is the only answer.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline kathyp

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2019, 12:45:22 pm »
Lol.  I am going to regret this, I know it!

What people don't seem to get about Trump is that he is not after fighting with people by way of war.  He believes and has always believed that economic pressure and promise of reward is the way to go.  He has not gotten us into more conflicts as the last president did.  He has not expanded our involvement in things as the last president did except to bomb the crap out of ISIS in Syria.  This appears to have been an effective strategy.  Trump is far less likely to resort to force than many of our presidents of the past, including the last one.

Iran is run by Islamist ideologues of the worst type.  Even other countries of the same Muslim sect do not agree with what Iran believes.  They are 12ers, but unlike others who believe as they do, they believe that Iran has been chosen to usher in the Mahdi.  What does the Mahdi need to appear?  Chaos, war, famine, death.  If you look at some of the videos that have come out of Iran, they show the world on fire.  Not only do they believe they have this special place in prophecy, but they believe the Mahdi is here and only needs the right conditions to appear.  That adds a little urgency to the whole chaos thing.

In 2009 our government was approached by Iranians who wanted to overthrow the nutters running the country.  Not only did the Obama admin fail to help, they would not even verbally support them.  It might have been the last best chance to do something, but we failed.  Obama had a thing for Islamists.  He was better at gun running to ISIS that supporting reform.

Do most of the people of Iran want war?  I doubt it.  If their government does something stupid they are going to get war.  Pretty sure in any war most of the population doesn't want it coming to them, but so it goes. 
Brits should know that better than most.

I have said before and will say again; if there ever was a country that would use nukes when they got them, Iran is that country. 

BTW, did you guys know that there are sunset clauses in the Iran deal with no plan for dealing with what they do after those clauses kick in?  They kick in in 2025, 28, and 30, and will allow Iran to carry on as they were if we are working on the assumption that they are now complying.  For a country that plays the long game, this was an easy get for them.  Billions of dollars and lifting sanctions and they just have to be careful for a few years. 




They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2019, 02:33:05 pm »
Kathy, I wish I was that articulate. Very well said!
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Iran what next?
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2019, 08:02:42 pm »
Good post Kathy.
Jim Altmiller