Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: This hive confuses me. I need help  (Read 341 times)

Offline Xerox

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
This hive confuses me. I need help
« on: June 27, 2019, 12:30:27 am »
So the hive kicked out a virgin queen yesterday. That would mean there is a queen right? The bees actually found the queen cage today because I was going to split the hive and i dint know how but they stung her through the cage and she died. So thos would mean the hive has a queen. I did a Inspection today and every frame was absolutely filled with nectar. I have a super on and they arent doing anything on it. I also saw a fat queen cell in the middle of a frame. So wouldn't that mean they are queen less? What should I do? I also got stung for the first time. Hurt like heck.

Questions- What should I do about the space issue?
Is there a queen?
How do I get them to draw out the super?
Can I harvest honey?
Should I do another split?

Offline sawdstmakr

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 10660
  • Gender: Male
Re: This hive confuses me. I need help
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2019, 01:43:54 am »
The bees consider a queen cell a queen. That is why when you add a queen you have to make sure there is not a queen nor a queen cell.
If there is more honey than they need or you still have more flows coming, then yes you can pull honey.
Right now you have no brood. You number are going to drastically drop for almost 30 days. Do not do a split now.
Move a frame of honey up in the super if you have a flow on and the hive is packed with bees. I do not recommend this due to no brood. You will probably end up with more space than the bees can protect before the first brood hatches.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Xerox

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
Re: This hive confuses me. I need help
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2019, 02:04:19 am »
The bees consider a queen cell a queen. That is why when you add a queen you have to make sure there is not a queen nor a queen cell.
If there is more honey than they need or you still have more flows coming, then yes you can pull honey.
Right now you have no brood. You number are going to drastically drop for almost 30 days. Do not do a split now.
Move a frame of honey up in the super if you have a flow on and the hive is packed with bees. I do not recommend this due to no brood. You will probably end up with more space than the bees can protect before the first brood hatches.
Jim Altmiller

Okay thanks for the tips. I will put a medium frame in the deep box and see if they'll draw it out then put it back in the super and harvest some honey. Still waiting for a queen I guess. I think I'll name her Tulip once she hatches and mates

Offline TheHoneyPump

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 572
  • Work Hard. Play Harder.
Re: This hive confuses me. I need help
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2019, 03:09:54 am »
Xerox.  How long has the hive been queenless?   If you are saying there is no brood at all, at ... all , then you are entering the period of laying workers.  A really Nasty situation.  How many hives do you have?   The question is relevant to consideration of options that lay ahead.   
Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz

Offline Xerox

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
Re: This hive confuses me. I need help
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2019, 01:29:19 pm »
Xerox.  How long has the hive been queenless?   If you are saying there is no brood at all, at ... all , then you are entering the period of laying workers.  A really Nasty situation.  How many hives do you have?   The question is relevant to consideration of options that lay ahead.

There's a full frame of capped brood and i have two hives. There were multiple swarm cells in the hive a week ago and now they're all gone and there just one cell.

Offline Xerox

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
Re: This hive confuses me. I need help
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2019, 01:36:05 pm »
Xerox.  How long has the hive been queenless?   If you are saying there is no brood at all, at ... all , then you are entering the period of laying workers.  A really Nasty situation.  How many hives do you have?   The question is relevant to consideration of options that lay ahead.

I only looked in the top box because i forgot to look at the bottom first and the bees started getting mad at the end. I looked in Queen Rose's hive and everything looked good. Still laying lots of eggs and i saw no swarm cells so i mitigated the swarm.

Offline Xerox

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
Re: This hive confuses me. I need help
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2019, 11:35:30 am »
I put a medium frame in the brood box and extracted a frame of honey yesterday. It's delicious. I also saw a few more queen cells.

Offline TheHoneyPump

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 572
  • Work Hard. Play Harder.
Re: This hive confuses me. I need help
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2019, 03:18:24 pm »
It is difficult to sort out what may be going on based on the information thus far.  I will advise to just throw out the opening observation of a kicked out virgin.  At this point it is irrelevant.  I will also advise to throw out the dead queen in cage observation.  Also irrelevant at this time.  Those are past, by-gones.   What you need to do is thoroughly inspect the brood nest to determine what is going on right now.   

With respect to your questions:

What should I do about the space issue?
- FFF = which means minimum Four Frames Free at all times.  If you do not see FFF at inspection, add space.

Is there a queen?
- are there eggs? yes there is a queen
- are there no eggs?  no there is not a queen
- are there queen cups?
- are there queen cells?
- is there evidence of past queen cell(s) that emerged or torn down.
( egg laying interruptions due to a swarm, emergency self requeening, failed supercedure, beekeeper error/injury, ... are all set aside at moment)

How do I get them to draw out the super?
- You don't.  They tell you they need a super by showing you that they do or they not have the needed FFF

Can I harvest honey?
- Is there FFF?
Add space or harvest honey to create FFF at all times

Should I do another split?
- at this point in the season the decision you are to make is if you want bees or if you want honey. 
     If you want honey, NO do not split.  Put the bees to work
     If you want bees, sure - you can split any time and as big or as small as you want.
- Are there eggs?
- Are you buying queens or leaving to the bees to raise one themselves?
Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz

Offline Xerox

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
Re: This hive confuses me. I need help
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2019, 05:47:18 pm »
It is difficult to sort out what may be going on based on the information thus far.  I will advise to just throw out the opening observation of a kicked out virgin.  At this point it is irrelevant.  I will also advise to throw out the dead queen in cage observation.  Also irrelevant at this time.  Those are past, by-gones.   What you need to do is thoroughly inspect the brood nest to determine what is going on right now.   

With respect to your questions:

What should I do about the space issue?
- FFF = which means minimum Four Frames Free at all times.  If you do not see FFF at inspection, add space.

Is there a queen?
- are there eggs? yes there is a queen
- are there no eggs?  no there is not a queen
- are there queen cups?
- are there queen cells?
- is there evidence of past queen cell(s) that emerged or torn down.
( egg laying interruptions due to a swarm, emergency self requeening, failed supercedure, beekeeper error/injury, ... are all set aside at moment)

How do I get them to draw out the super?
- You don't.  They tell you they need a super by showing you that they do or they not have the needed FFF

Can I harvest honey?
- Is there FFF?
Add space or harvest honey to create FFF at all times

Should I do another split?
- at this point in the season the decision you are to make is if you want bees or if you want honey. 
     If you want honey, NO do not split.  Put the bees to work
     If you want bees, sure - you can split any time and as big or as small as you want.
- Are there eggs?
- Are you buying queens or leaving to the bees to raise one themselves?

No there is not a queen. There are capped queen cells on the middle and bottoms of some frames. Yes some queen cells have been torn down. No there is not FFF i harvested one frame of honey. I am choosing not to do a split. No there are no eggs. I'm leaving the bees to make their own.

Offline TheHoneyPump

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 572
  • Work Hard. Play Harder.
This hive confuses me. I need help
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2019, 01:52:00 am »
Ok. Based on your answers, the following for your consideration:

- harvest some more honey frames. This is to create that FFF.  If there is a strong flow for the coming week, ensure the super(s) is also on.
- remove/destroy all queen cells except for the two best ones.  Ideally those two are on the same frame or are on two frames facing each other.  This is to reduce the rivalry death matches to one.  This minimizes the potential for injury, eliminates minicast swarms, and establishes a single dominant queen quickly.
- after above, stay out of the hive for 2 weeks.  Then go check for eggs. .... and harvest some more honey.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 02:08:20 am by TheHoneyPump »
Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz Bees Buzz

Offline Xerox

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
Re: This hive confuses me. I need help
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2019, 11:41:33 am »
Ok. Based on your answers, the following for your consideration:

- harvest some more honey frames. This is to create that FFF.  If there is a strong flow for the coming week, ensure the super(s) is also on.
- remove/destroy all queen cells except for the two best ones.  Ideally those two are on the same frame or are on two frames facing each other.  This is to reduce the rivalry death matches to one.  This minimizes the potential for injury, eliminates minicast swarms, and establishes a single dominant queen quickly.
- after above, stay out of the hive for 2 weeks.  Then go check for eggs. .... and harvest some more honey.

Okay thanks for your help. I will do all this stuff after work.