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Author Topic: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.  (Read 634 times)

Offline sawdstmakr

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Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« on: June 08, 2019, 07:21:22 am »
Time after time, I and others have said that in natural hives, bees build from the top down. I don?t know why they did it this way but this hive built halfway down in a wall from the sides and worked their way down. By the way the wax looked, it actually looks like they were building upwards. The wax on top is very new and uncapped and everything below it is capped and getting darker.

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Here is a picture taken after we removed the stucco and the first board. It is a very old house. Notice the outside boards are one by eight yellow pine. There is a lot of termite damage but they do not like yellow pine so it is not serious damage as far as strength goes.

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Here I am looking down behind the boards and you can see there is nothing but the sides holding up the comb. I thought this was pretty amazing engineering.

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As soon as we started the bees started walking up the left side of the wall. I had a strong feeling that I should look for the queen and she was right in the middle of the bees heading for the top. I didn?t have a queen catcher yet because I wasn?t expecting to find a queen before we started. I had to grab her with my fingers and hold her in my hand until BobSim found a queen catcher.  Here she is.

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Continued.

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2019, 07:26:59 am »
Very neat well done

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2019, 07:34:51 am »
The below picture was taken after I removed the first piece of comb and gave it to the owner. You can see where it is attached to the sides and to the comb next to it. I had to cut the top two inches off each layer. There was sawdust in the top uncapped cells.

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Here  is a picture of the brood area. Notice it is much darker comb. We rubber banded 8 medium frames of brood from this hive and we got 3 and a half gallons of honey and a lot of wax and bees.
Bob and I really enjoyed doing this cutout.

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Jim Altmiller

Offline Acebird

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2019, 08:51:07 am »
If someone had to do the repair after they did the cut out do not cut into the boards in a straight line.  Cut from one side of the nail at the bottom of the board to the other side of the top nail.  This will allow you to use the cut out boards for the replacement.  It also will not throw sawdust into the comb not that the bees won't clean it out.
I am surprised that bees would take over a termite colony.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2019, 10:00:29 am »
Ace,
I agree with cutting straight down the middle of the 2x6. I pointed this out to Bob and then he did the same. If you look at the left side, you can see that is what he did.
Termites were long gone.
Jim Altmiller

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2019, 07:48:53 pm »
That is some amazing engineering Jim. .. I gotta learn to bee more Jonny-on-the-spot with the camera ... nicely done. Thank you for sharing! Pretty cool stuff.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2019, 08:12:29 pm »
Thanks Coolbees. I was really surprised by the way they built it.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Acebird

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2019, 08:33:44 am »
Ace,
I agree with cutting straight down the middle of the 2x6. I pointed this out to Bob and then he did the same. If you look at the left side, you can see that is what he did.
Termites were long gone.
Jim Altmiller

The trouble is you may not know exactly where the middle is or the nails will be in the way.  Cutting at a slight angle from one side of the nail to the other insures you have good purchase for putting the boards back.  At the very least do this on the first one.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2019, 12:15:12 am »
Ace,
I agree with cutting straight down the middle of the 2x6. I pointed this out to Bob and then he did the same. If you look at the left side, you can see that is what he did.
Termites were long gone.
Jim Altmiller

You and Ace are both right, in the case of sheetrock, I have found it easy and efficient to cut along side of the 2-by frame with a multi purpose tool. By doing this the sheetrock dust will be held to a minimal also making a perfect smooth cut, and sheetrock will not usually break. Replace sheetrock by using a scab 2-by butted to the original frame. This gives a perfect fit with the sheetrock going back into place making a superb professional finish a breeze, and stronger than the original structure.  "Tip for the day"  Phillip

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2019, 12:22:16 am »
Ben,z
The problem with cutting next to the 2by 4 is that the dust ends up all over the comb. I try to find the nails and use them as a guide to tell me where the center of the frame board is. In the case of plywood, usually floor boards, we pull the nails out with a cats claw and cut down the center of the 2 by.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2019, 12:52:02 am »
Ben,z
The problem with cutting next to the 2by 4 is that the dust ends up all over the comb. I try to find the nails and use them as a guide to tell me where the center of the frame board is. In the case of plywood, usually floor boards, we pull the nails out with a cats claw and cut down the center of the 2 by.
Jim Altmiller

The problem with cutting next to the 2by 4 is that the dust ends up all over the comb.

In the case of plywood, I follow your lead. To much cutting and time killing with a multi cutting tool. I also pull the nails with a cat claw and usually use toe kick saw or skill saw, for cutting this.

Sheetrock is another matter. This is why I use the multi tool. No rotating blade slinging sheetrock dust all over the comb, no ripping up and down motion creating dust as with a jig saw or hand sheetrock saw, or any other means that I have tried, including razor knife. When you make the top and bottom cut with other means, the globs of dust will fall to the comb any way using other means, that is of course unless you always make your horizontal cuts across the top plate and same way with the bottom plate, taking out the entire hight of the sheetrock, floor to ceiling.  The blade simply vibrates at a minimum distance, will not easily cut your hand, (ask me how I know. ;)  with a simple un-pressured touch, as compared to any other means, making it not only effective, efficient, and (as close) to dust free, as any way I have tried, but safe to use as well.  This equipment operates kind of like barber shears as related to the vibrating back and forth motion of the blade.  And one other problem that I have ran into is all sheetrock is not nailed, but in my area the newer homes are now using glue along with a minimum amount of nails fastening the sheetrock to the 2-bys.    Love my multi-cutting tools. :)
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« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 01:52:03 am by Ben Framed »

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2019, 07:59:35 am »
Ben,
I also have a multi tool and use it in cut outs. I use it more for the corners where the circular saws cannot reach. They are much slower on wood than the circular saw.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2019, 09:12:17 am »
Ben,
I also have a multi tool and use it in cut outs. I use it more for the corners where the circular saws cannot reach. They are much slower on wood than the circular saw.
Jim Altmiller

Same here with the wood, squared off blade for corners.  The round blade for Sheetrock. I really enjoy your cutout post and look very closely at your pictures trying to learn. I looked very closely at your cuts on (what a mess) I was thinking, if Jim had used a multi tool with the round blade on that left side and overhead cut on the Sheetrock if would have helped him tremendously.  I was only trying to help from what I have experienced first hand. Each to his on choosing.
Phillip.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2019, 09:25:00 am »
I have found it easy and efficient to cut along side of the 2-by frame with a multi purpose tool.

Patients and a new blade in a utility knife, no dust at all.  Piece of cake for 1/2".  A little tougher for 5/8" fire wall but still can be done with patience.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2019, 10:04:32 am »
What is even better is to cut partially through the drywall with a saw or multitool and finish with a knife.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Acebird

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2019, 08:21:18 am »
Doesn't the vibration alarm the hive?
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Darn bees just don?t read the rule books.
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2019, 09:50:40 am »
Doesn't the vibration alarm the hive?

I have not noticed it Brian. It is much faster and smoother. I use a metal yard stick or a drywall square to mark my cuts. Making a perfect smooth cut and  I use the very same piece of drywall when finished, This affords a perfect tight fit, and a good looking fit to match. Very  professional that a keeper can be proud of a job well done. The customers love it.
Phillip