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Author Topic: Is impeachment close?  (Read 5561 times)

Offline kathyp

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #140 on: December 24, 2019, 02:18:55 pm »
Quote
Shiff's paraphrasing of the transcript was a proper interpretation of trumps released transcript.

Even if you were to believe that, he read it into the official transcript with no context.  It was HIS interpretation meant for the majority of people who would be too lazy to fact check him. 
I have watched hearings and then watched him come out a lie about the hearings that were just televised.  He was the wrong person to lead those hearings.  He is not trusted by anyone because they all know he will lie when the truth would serve him.

His opinion is his, but what he did is not defensible. 

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline herbhome

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #141 on: December 24, 2019, 11:13:20 pm »
That one was really good, Iddee.  :grin: Merry Christmas.
Neill

Offline iddee

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #142 on: December 25, 2019, 05:49:14 am »
Merry Christmas
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #143 on: December 25, 2019, 01:43:31 pm »
>Shiff's paraphrasing of the transcript was a proper interpretation of trumps released transcript. 

Not even in the ball park.  I found it interesting when Nancy Pelosi was on Anderson Cooper and she kept quoting Shiff's "parody" and Anderson Cooper kept trying to correct her and she kept insisting that was exactly what Trump said.  It was deceitful and the impact of that deceit continues to this day.  Some people still think that was what was said.
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Offline gww

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #144 on: December 25, 2019, 02:30:12 pm »
Michael
Have you read the transcript in a fashion where you were trying to access why the things that were said were being said and put that to the actions going on around the conversation to assess intent to even bring up the subject matter in the conversation?
It does not take much common sense to see intent around the transcript conversation.
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gww

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #145 on: December 25, 2019, 08:16:17 pm »
>It does not take much common sense to see intent around the transcript conversation.

I think it's obvious that the president was doing his job.  Trying to investigate corruption that has already taken place at the HIGHEST levels of our government and trying to find the connections (which have been widely publicized if you don't just listen to the left news) between interference in our election and the Ukrainian government.  I think if he did NOT investigate he would be negligent.





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Offline gww

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #146 on: December 25, 2019, 10:27:18 pm »
I agree with nancy in the second video and also don't think the president was worried about corruption and would not be doing his job if he did not ask in the way he did.  Every one knows the president.  The president has given no inclination that he gives a hoot about any corruption unless it directly affects him personally.  He says the call is perfect.  His intent on caring about this corruption by virtue of it affecting him personally is understandable but the selfishness of giving it so much credence and using the force of the government for something so personal and out side of normal channels is not something we really should want all officials to do.
You give him more credit then he gives anyone but himself.  He is more then willing to want to put everybody in the opposing party in jail and like his bertha facts will not let the truth get in the way but thinks he is above reproach.  He can go after Hillary for a year over emails and then say his daughter is fine and use a unsecured cell phone.   What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

He says the democrats hate him and that is the only reason he is being impeached.  Maybe they do hate him but that is also their job and he was dumb enough to give them something to get their teeth into. 

He deserves about the same amount of mercy that he has shown to others.
Cheers
gww
« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 10:38:17 pm by gww »

Offline kathyp

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #147 on: December 25, 2019, 11:21:44 pm »
Quote
Have you read the transcript in a fashion where you were trying to access why the things that were said were being said and put that to the actions going on around the conversation to assess intent to even bring up the subject matter in the conversation?
It does not take much common sense to see intent around the transcript conversation.

If the transcript made the point there was no reason for Schiff to do his interpretation.  There certainly was no reason for him to do it without context and in a formal setting.  He should have saved it for SNL.  There is no excuse for what he did.

Quote
He says the democrats hate him and that is the only reason he is being impeached.  Maybe they do hate him but that is also their job and he was dumb enough to give them something to get their teeth into.

Since they have been talking about impeaching him from the day he took office, they really didn't need much prompting.  Mueller didn't work out for them so they invented this. 
What is interesting to me is that the very same people who wish to impeach this president over a phone call that in the grand scheme of things is nothing, allowed the last president to do some blatantly unconstitutional things and never raised an eyebrow.

The good thing is that this has turned into a CF for the dems and I am enjoying it.



They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline gww

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #148 on: December 25, 2019, 11:41:36 pm »
kathy
For those that watched enough and already knew what the transcript said prior to shiff, Shiff's statement about it put it into a context that everyone had already understood.  I realize that many do not pay that much attention (myself included many times) and so his statement was the first they knew about the transcript, it may have came off as you say.  However, even though on tv, shiff was talking to the congress who all did have prior access to the transcript and so his paraphrasing it should have made perfect sense to them.  That is probably why in the beginning the republicans in the house talked more about shiff instead of their new position that defends the call, sort of, now.  It is only recently that some of them say the call its self was ok. 
Cheers
gww

Offline Acebird

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #149 on: December 26, 2019, 08:26:54 am »
gww welcome to the debate.  I am sure you realize that you are outnumbered but I know you are a fighter.  Merry Christmas btw and interested in how your bees are doing in other threads.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #150 on: December 26, 2019, 08:31:16 am »
The good thing is that this has turned into a CF for the dems and I am enjoying it.
Correcting force.  Me too.
Kathy, you should leave your code words for the military if you want to get your message across to the GP.  LOL
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #151 on: December 26, 2019, 09:31:50 am »
Ace,
Kathy knows she cannot spell that one out and it sure isn?t Correcting Force.
Jim Altmiller

Offline kathyp

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #152 on: December 26, 2019, 11:15:53 am »
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athy knows she cannot spell that one out and it sure isn?t Correcting Force.

 :cheesy:
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #153 on: December 26, 2019, 07:09:58 pm »
>He says the democrats hate him and that is the only reason he is being impeached.

Since they declared the fight to impeach him on the day of the election (and a few of them before the election) this is OBVIOUSLY true.
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Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #154 on: January 12, 2020, 05:32:53 pm »
>He says the democrats hate him and that is the only reason he is being impeached.

Since they declared the fight to impeach him on the day of the election (and a few of them before the election) this is OBVIOUSLY true.
But as to the original premise.....YES
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Offline iddee

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #155 on: January 12, 2020, 05:48:47 pm »
impeachment, yes.
Conviction, not in a hundred years.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline incognito

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #156 on: January 12, 2020, 06:16:07 pm »
What is reassuring is that the founding fathers designed a system built to foil the ill intent of men. That is why powers of impeachment were given to one branch of the legislature and the powers of trial given to the other. Let us hope the system works as they intended.

I read the Federalist Papers during my time away from the computer. It is a long tough read, but it is somewhat comforting in that what we are living through currently was contemplated by the members of the constitutional convention.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #157 on: January 13, 2020, 09:31:12 am »
what we are living through currently was contemplated by the members of the constitutional convention.
What about the part that the senators take an oath to be impartial for the trial.  You want to pick and choose the words in the constitution that favors your choice and ignore the rest?
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Offline iddee

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #158 on: January 13, 2020, 09:40:34 am »
What about the part that the representatives take an oath to be impartial for the hearing?  You want to pick and choose the words in the constitution that favors your choice and ignore the rest?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline kathyp

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #159 on: January 13, 2020, 01:39:35 pm »
Quote
What about the part that the senators take an oath to be impartial for the trial.

Yes, if the democrats in the senate are impartial, they will vote to acquit.  I don't expect them to be impartial, do you?
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville