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Author Topic: Is impeachment close?  (Read 5716 times)

Offline iddee

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #180 on: January 24, 2020, 06:48:25 pm »
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/what-impeachment-managers-in-trumps-senate-trial-seem-to-be-forgetting-debbie-lesko


 It seems the seven impeachment managers have conveniently forgotten many of the facts surrounding their deeply flawed case for impeachment. They began by crying out for witnesses, witnesses they could have called in the House, and asking the Senate to do their job for them. As they made their opening arguments, they left out key information and used cherry-picked quotes and video clips. When we look at the facts the Democrats seem to be forgetting, it could not be more clear that this sham of an impeachment is nothing more than a political hit job against President Trump.

There are four inconvenient?but key?facts that haven?t changed since this impeachment hoax began.

    The call transcript shows zero link between aid and political investigations. (And remember, President Trump declassified and released the transcript all on his own.) 
    The aid was released without any commitment to new investigations. 
    Ukraine did not know aid was withheld at the time of the July 25 phone call. 
    President Trump and President Zelensky have both repeatedly said that there was no pressure. In fact, there are multiple Ukrainian officials on the record saying there was no pressure and no link between the aid and investigations.

Funny how these all seem to have been forgotten by the impeachment managers.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline iddee

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #181 on: January 24, 2020, 06:49:10 pm »
On the second day, Democrats began their opening arguments. They focused much of their attention on Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland. What they neglected to mention from his testimony is that Sondland admitted he has no evidence that President Trump was tying aid to political investigations other than his presumptions. In fact, Sondland testified that President Trump told him, ?I want nothing, I want nothing, I want no quid pro quo.? Democrats conveniently left that part out, and the parts where former National Security Council Adviser Tim Morrison and former U.S. Ambassador to NATO Kurt Volker testified there was no quid pro quo, bribery, or extortion. So all the Democrats have is hearsay and presumptions?very convenient for the Democrats to leave this part out while making their case.

Democrats also seem to forget that their own witnesses have already testified under oath that corruption in Ukraine is very concerning and that the Trump Administration has done more for Ukraine than the Obama Administration ever did. Obama gave Ukraine blankets; President Trump gave the Ukrainians lethal aid and a real ability to defend themselves. It is also important to point out that in the House, four of these impeachment managers recently voted against giving Ukraine any aid at all.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline iddee

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #182 on: January 24, 2020, 06:52:42 pm »
And while Democrats have been pursuing their baseless impeachment against President Trump, he has never stopped working for the American people. He announced a historic Phase One Trade Agreement with China, the USMCA is moving forward, and evil terrorist Qassem Soleimani has been eliminated. All of this while maintaining the lowest average unemployment rate in recorded history. It is easy to tell who is really working on behalf of the American people.

Perhaps the most telling part of this entire sham is that the crimes Democrats are alleging never even made it into the actual articles of impeachment they passed. The only abuse of power here has been from the Democrats. The Democrat party has weaponized impeachment into a political tool because they cannot accept that their own failed candidate did not win the 2016 election. So now they are rushing to impeach with another election just months away. Perhaps the Democrats should stop obstructing Congress and return to working on behalf of the American people, rather than working so hard to influence?and interfere in?the 2020 election.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline gww

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #183 on: January 24, 2020, 07:16:11 pm »
Iddee
I guess fox news has been watching a different impeachment trial then I have.  There are falsehoods in their assertions above but I am too lazy to go through them all.  As far as I am concerned, If I were a congressman or a senator, I would impeach him for defying my request for info.  If I didn't. then there is really no need for congressional oversight cause oversight is impossible if request are not responded to.  If I were a legislator, I would feel this way even if he was innocent on the abuse of power which he is not.
Cheers
gww

Offline iddee

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #184 on: January 24, 2020, 07:31:30 pm »
Glad you are so well informed, gww. All I have is the news. I'm not privileged to a crystal ball as you seem to be.

PS. If withholding info was a removable crime, there would be no one in Washington to do the trials.

The same goes for abuse of powers.

How you can accuse him of that after watching the dems for the last few months, I'll never understand. I don't think even Hitler's abuse of power matches theirs. They had already started the impeachment plans before he was ever inaugurated. How can you excuse garbage like that?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline gww

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #185 on: January 24, 2020, 07:46:45 pm »
iddee
Quote
They had already started the impeachment plans before he was ever inaugurated. How can you excuse garbage like that?
Trump knew they were going to watch him and was still so stupid that he did what he did.    How can you excuse garbage like that? :happy:
Cheers
gww

Offline iddee

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #186 on: January 24, 2020, 08:05:52 pm »
That's what I'm asking you. They were going to do it no matter what he did. No President in your or my lifetime has done 1/2 the good he has done in his first 3 years. They just can't stand it, and their sheeple are following right along. Sometimes I simply feel sorry for such simple sheeple. The dem women seem to have bigger gonads then the men.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline gww

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #187 on: January 24, 2020, 08:26:19 pm »
Iddee
Quote
That's what I'm asking you. They were going to do it no matter what he did.
It is not a good defense to say that since they are looking anyway, I am just going to do something wrong.  They are going to blame me anyway, I will just go ahead and do it.

To your other point.  Tim Mcvey joined the military maybe out of patriotism which most consider a good thing but that does not excuse bombing the world trade.  You should get the credit for good things but doing good things does not give licences to do bad.
President Trump is like most presidents to me.  I like some things and I don't like some.  I don't like his suing to get rid of pre-exsisting conditions on health care.  He has not done that good in my eyes on many subjects but has on a few if I can believe it which is hard cause I don't trust him and can not count on things he says.  I like guns. 

Still, he would put every one he doesn't like in jail if he could and so he should not be doing stuff wrong that is so easy to see that he did it.  What is good for the goose is good for the gander.  He did do what he did for himself and not for the country and he would deserve it if they removed him.
Why would I have faith in somebody who says they are looking and so I am going to do something wrong for them to find.  Doesn't seem like that deserve a response that he is so smart and that is why I should follow him.
Cheers
gww
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 08:51:03 pm by gww »

Offline iddee

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #188 on: January 24, 2020, 08:50:37 pm »
You just refuse to see. If a dem peed on the street, they would give him a 25.00 ticket for public urination.
If Trump did it, they would give him life for trying to contaminate the whole state's drinking water.

NO, he didn't do wrong just because they were watching. He is doing what they should have done long ago, but were too stupid to do it. Now he is doing it and they are seeing their stupidity and trying to hide it from the citizens..
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline gww

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #189 on: January 24, 2020, 08:53:39 pm »
Iddee
Trump only acted as he did for personal reasons, he did not do what he did for you or the country. Period. 
Cheers
gww

Offline iddee

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #190 on: January 24, 2020, 09:17:44 pm »
You poor soul. Trump is worth over a billion dollars less now then when he was elected. Please stop believing all that garbage Ace is spitting out on here.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline gww

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #191 on: January 24, 2020, 09:39:00 pm »
Iddee
Quote
You poor soul. Trump is worth over a billion dollars less now then when he was elected. Please stop believing all that garbage Ace is spitting out on here.

If that is a good argument, Maybe you should vote for mike bloomberg.  He is going to spend more then trump lost just trying to win.  I wouldn't know if trump lost or ever had a billion.  I wouldn't know if he is not making money that I don't know about while being president.  I would not make somebody a dictator cause he was willing to give his money away.  He might be like mike and have that much to give away with out it affecting him.  If me and trump both get a speeding ticket, should I have to pay two hundred and him have to pay nothing cause he already gave so much money away?  I am sure it does work that way at times.  If I was on trial, I would get one lawyer and OJ can have five.  If he does not do wrong then he should get credit for his donation (if even true).  It is not a license to do what you want though.

Just curious, what does that have to do with right or wrong? :cheesy:
Cheers
gww

Offline kathyp

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #192 on: January 24, 2020, 10:06:54 pm »
Quote
If I were a congressman or a senator, I would impeach him for defying my request for info.  If I didn't. then there is really no need for congressional oversight cause oversight is impossible if request are not responded to

You'd have to impeach every president that I can think of.  They are co-equal branches of government and if one does not want to do something then the courts are the recourse.  The house chose not to take that route because it was so important to get this done fast!!  So Nancy could sit on it. 

Abuse of power is not a thing.  It is a subjective call.  Every opposing side accuses the other of abuse of power.  Again, if it was a thing that was impeachable, every president would have been impeached. 

Quote
Trump knew they were going to watch him and was still so stupid that he did what he did.

Who are they?  Since impeachment was brought up even as he was taking the oath of office he could have allowed the idea to paralyze him.  He made a phone call.  It was not a perfect call.  It was not an impeachable call.  It was just a flipping phone call.  The reason the left latched on to it is because the Mueller bit had failed.  They had to do something after promising they would, didn't they?  Nancy knew better. 

Quote
Still, he would put every one he doesn't like in jail if he could and so he should not be doing stuff wrong that is so easy to see that he did it. 

Can you cite a source for this? 

Quote
He did do what he did for himself and not for the country and he would deserve it if they removed him.

opinion.  Unless you know what was in his heart and head...and you are welcome to your opinion. 
Quote
Tim Mcvey joined the military maybe out of patriotism which most consider a good thing but that does not excuse bombing the world trade.  You should get the credit for good things but doing good things does not give licences to do bad.

Are you actually comparing a phone call to blowing up a building and killing a bunch of people?   :cheesy:

Quote
If that is a good argument, Maybe you should vote for mike bloomberg.

He wants you guns   :grin:
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline gww

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #193 on: January 24, 2020, 10:29:17 pm »
Kathy
Quote
He made a phone call.  It was not a perfect call.
Of course it was not just a call. 
Cheers
gww

Offline iddee

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #194 on: January 24, 2020, 10:34:53 pm »
""Trump only acted as he did for personal reasons,""

The only personal reasons I can think of would be money, and I blew that one out of the water. What personal reasons do you think he did it for?

""Trump is worth over a billion dollars less now then when he was elected""

Mike hasn't lost or spent a penny since being  elected. Where did you get the idea he had been president?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline gww

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #195 on: January 24, 2020, 11:16:21 pm »
Iddee
I actually watched c-span coverage of the trial today.  This young collage kid called in and he was so wound up and shaking and seemed like he was about to cry cause they were trying to take away his president.
That aint me.  I think he did wrong outside of whether his being there or not will help me the most.  I will live through it all and most likely not have much change in my life anyway.  I vote my conscious and lose all the time and seem to live through it.  It is fun to discuss but since it is not my job, I have to be in the mood to type enough to counter every point that might come up.  I do not respect trump or trust trump at all but also would not take his job to try and fix it.  I am retired and don't mind thinking about it but wouldn't want it myself if it was handed to me on a silver platter.  I think they aught to remove him but will lose no sleep regardless.
I think his supporters would be trying to remove a democrat with these same facts, as they understand them now, if the shoe were on the other foot.   
Such is life.

My dad used to cut stay-bolts that they make whiskey barrels out of.  One time they were lobbying to make a law that barrels could not be used twice by the whiskey makers cause it affected the flavor.  Even though they drank plenty of whiskey, I do not believe they were so worried about the flavor that that is why they worked so hard on lobbying for the law. :happy:
Cheers
gww

Offline Acebird

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #196 on: January 25, 2020, 09:24:12 am »
Trump is worth over a billion dollars less now then when he was elected.
Wally you got a copy of his tax return?  Please share it.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline iddee

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #197 on: January 25, 2020, 09:42:50 am »
Ace, I know I question your intelligence now and then, but I have NEVER thought you believed a billionaire filed a truthful tax return. Heck, my 4 year old great grand daughter knows better than that.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline incognito

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #198 on: January 25, 2020, 09:52:08 am »
The entire process to date smells like rotting fish.
I have not witnessed a search for justice, whatever the outcome. This is not in the best interest of our country.

I have to give the Democrats some credit for playing their hand the best they could...even if it involved dealing from the bottom of the deck. I would not have used repetition to the extent that they did as part of my presentation strategy.

The managers have not proven to me (based on the live testimony I watched during the televised hearings held in the house) that Trump was acting solely for his benefit in the 2020 election regarding the investigation of Biden. However, IMHO the managers are playing this out for the Democrats benefit in the 2020 election. The managers did not give an honest presentation of that testimony.
Stay tuned. Let's see if the President' team can bring this up a notch or two in integrity.
What I am struggling with the most is the question whether the Democrats negotiated in good faith to get the information they are entitled to or if they gave Trump enough rope to hang himself with on the obstruction charge.


Tom

Offline gww

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Re: Is impeachment close?
« Reply #199 on: January 25, 2020, 11:39:28 am »
Incognito
I would not have too much confidence in the defense.  The first thing out of their mouth was that democrats left out the president on the transcript saying that we gave more then everybody and was good to ukraine.  The transcript was on line with both sides saying read it.  Then they put a clip of adam shiff paraphrasing the transcript where he said "we been good to you, we gave more to you than every one".  To me, saying that something did not happen and then showing that it did would not be a great defense.  Now that is funny.

If they gave trump the rope, he was sure to hang himself.   Either way, were I in the senate, I would be reluctant to set any president that stripped power from myself and my ability to do my job.  Why run if I have no power to help.
Cheers
gww