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Author Topic: Beehive full of honey, add another super?  (Read 799 times)

Offline TheFuzz

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Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« on: April 18, 2019, 03:00:40 am »
I have some hives in the suburbs of Adelaide. They're all full of honey. Is it too close to winter to add another super on top? I know our international friends wouldn't add supers this time of year for the most part due to the upcoming winter, but it seems in Australia that the bees are still somewhat active in the early parts of winter, and it's less important to make sure the bees are warm.

Some of the hives are full of honey, but seem low on bee population. Should I, or shouldn't I add a super to these hives?

Offline eltalia

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2019, 05:22:33 am »
Remove and store. Bees may well need that buffer come July.
Reduce to your BC only and replace capped or mostly capped with
fully drawn for the bees to backfill.
Come first week of May it may prove wise to introduce a broodbreak
if flows are still happening, 12 days would be enough to meet up with
their natural - selfimposed - broodbreak.
Enough?

Cheers ....

Bill

Offline Acebird

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2019, 08:47:38 am »
replace capped or mostly capped with
fully drawn for the bees to backfill.

Why not let them fill what is there rather then give them empty frames that they will not be able to fill before winter?
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline TheFuzz

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2019, 10:00:39 am »
What would the purpose of remove and storing the supers be eltalia? I'm only concerned about mice or wax moth getting to them if I did that, is that not a risk? And what's a broodbreak?

There's just hardly any space for them to fill in. One of them has built quite a bit of honeycomb on the lid, even with their being a mat just because the super is that full. I know it takes a lot of nectar to start building more honeycomb for a new super, though.


Offline eltalia

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2019, 10:30:41 am »
replace capped or mostly capped with
fully drawn for the bees to backfill.

Why not let them fill what is there rather then give them empty frames that they
will not be able to fill before winter?
Because it is after mid April whereon winter prep starts in the
South, Brian. At least for Adelaide Hills and surrounds there is
 ample time yet to backfill a BC for wintering.
Not so in the tropixs of FNQ where end of April usually
signals the beginning of our 'Spring' whereon we get right onto
 expansion mode.... confused much?

Cheers...

Bill

Offline eltalia

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2019, 10:47:49 am »
What would the purpose of remove and storing the supers be eltalia? I'm only concerned about
mice or wax moth getting to them if I did that, is that not a risk? And what's a broodbreak?

There's just hardly any space for them to fill in. One of them has built quite a bit of honeycomb
on the lid, even with their being a mat just because the super is that full. I know it takes a lot of
 nectar to start building more honeycomb for a new super, though.

A broodbreak is a period in Time where the queen is discouraged by bees
from laying or forced on by Man through caging her in a corrall style cage,
not a queen cage as such. There exists much olde discussion on the topic
in BMA archives.
Sounds like you have some work ahead of you in cleaning up
those hives. Crush and strain your lid comb, it is all good food
in July.
I and others persist in saying mats do not work as hoped, yet
some still insist on using such, fix the problem that exists in the
 lid... and that job disappears.
In presuming you are running 10frm supers all through, the
desupering in running a single BC over winter is recommended.
If you intend doing something different or have done such in the
past with success then now is the time to say so.

Cheers...

Bill



Offline Acebird

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2019, 08:55:15 am »

Because it is after mid April whereon winter prep starts in the
South, Brian. At least for Adelaide Hills and surrounds there is
 ample time yet to backfill a BC for wintering.

Bill

He claimed they are already full.  At least that is the way I took it.
Quote
They're all full of honey.
If they are already full and he doesn't provide space he might get a suicide swarm.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline eltalia

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2019, 09:34:05 am »
You've zipped past this keystone advice/info Brian.
____
"Remove and store. Bees may well need that buffer come July.
Reduce to your BC only and replace capped or mostly capped with
fully drawn for the bees to backfill."
____

However let's work with what Fuzzy writes as understood or
desired, avoiding lines of speculative text

Compliments.


Bill

Offline Acebird

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2019, 09:31:34 am »

However let's work with what Fuzzy writes as understood or
desired, avoiding lines of speculative text

Bill I have less of a problem understanding what others write then what you write.  So I find myself always looking for clarification.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline TheFuzz

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2019, 11:45:40 am »
Two of the hives is two deep supers full of honey. Two hives are single deep full of honey. Another hive is just manley sized full of honey, that's the one with a lid full of honey. They all have 9 frames per super.

Surprised that having just a single brood chamber for bees in Australia is recommended. I have had success with leaving extra supers on during Winter, leaving them full of honey, but that might not be the best approach. Taking the honey out, spinning it, to only potentially give it back to them if they get hungry seems like it's making extra work for myself, but I suppose I think about it that way because I don't understand the benefits of doing that.

Offline eltalia

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2019, 07:03:15 pm »

However let's work with what Fuzzy writes as understood or
desired, avoiding lines of speculative text

Bill I have less of a problem understanding what others write then what you write.
 So I find myself always looking for clarification.

We have been here before Brian so in revision I simply remind you it is
beyond my pay level to script for nanobubbles of population.
Do enjoy the easter holiday persusing various artiste.

Compliments.

Bill

Offline eltalia

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2019, 07:06:48 pm »


@The Fuzz
There was a time in this Country where hobbyists in fields of ample could play the remote
landlord with their few hives, for a number of reasons that has changed to now be close
to a second job in terms of hours required at the pump.
Your post;
https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=52230.msg466530#msg466530
actually provides you with options IF you look at all of your operation.

In short, bees are work and so with limited hours to do that work one best think some
about strategies. For your situation given the experience level it might prove wiser to use
the forum differently, like you layout what you would do - others to then advise on those
concepts of thought.
As example only?
There is no requirement to extract all frames, just enough to give you sufficient drawn
combs, the remainder not required in service can be stored. That lid comb alone can be
crushed and strained for feeding back in frame feeders.
Fair enough?

Cheers...

Bill


Offline Acebird

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2019, 09:43:08 am »
Two of the hives is two deep supers full of honey. Two hives are single deep full of honey. Another hive is just manley sized full of honey, that's the one with a lid full of honey. They all have 9 frames per super.
Mind you I do not know the flow characteristics in your area but if the brood chambers are not full of brood or honey/pollen then that is space to backfill before winter.  Oh my aching back, deep supers full of honey!  The decision to harvest is yours but you do not want empty boxes on top of a hive going through winter if your winter is a clustering dearth.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline TheFuzz

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2019, 11:13:50 am »
There doesn't appear to be much space in the brood chamber and I believe there still might be some sort of flow going on. I'll have a good look at the center few frames to see if there's much space for them to lay new brood. I don't think I will harvest, since they're just 1 or 2 deep and I'm going into Winter.

I'm just thinking about it now... I've got some hives at a different site that are starving. I'm going to move them to where these hives are doing well and full of honey. What if I took out some frames of the hives that are full of honey, and give them to the bees that are starving? That way the hives that are full will have some empty space to expand into, and the bees that are almost empty on honey, can get some juicy thick honeyframes to help them out?


Offline Acebird

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2019, 09:38:19 am »
I would do it with my bees but not someone else's.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline eltalia

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2019, 07:34:55 pm »
There doesn't appear to be much space in the brood chamber

...then you'll be looking to provide some, using stickies.

Quote
and I believe there still might be some sort of flow going on.

News just yesterday is temps are dropping as that Front moves east but
there'll be fly hours/days innit and after it.
Quote
I'll have a good look at the center few frames to see if there's much space for them to lay new brood.
 I don't think I will harvest, since they're just 1 or 2 deep and I'm going into Winter.
Remember bees want their food where the queen is, like around the cluster.
So where frames of stores are above any broodchamber config there isn't to
be any QX or clearance board fitted.
Quote
I'm just thinking about it now... I've got some hives at a different site that are starving. I'm going to move
them to where these hives are doing well and full of honey.
Have a think about why you put those colonys there in the first place?
2018/19 may not have (overall) been kind but next year???
Quote
What if I took out some frames of the hives that are full of honey, and give them to the bees that are
starving? That way the hives that are full will have some empty space to expand into, and the bees
that are almost empty on honey, can get some juicy thick honeyframes to help them out?
With appropriate frame shuffles that could work... be very sure no colonys have
any AFB/EFB presence though. And remember we are talking empty drawn comb
as "space" here, not super space or expectations to build new combs, that won't
happen (much) at these temps, even in a flow.

Adelaide is outside the window now for moth and beetle flareups so storing combs
in a sealed tub left in the lawnlocker could be an option over winter or this could be
an opportunity to renew old combs now reaching nonviable brood rearing.

Whatever you do do, diarise the manipulations and later the outcomes.
Biosecurity demands this anyway buuut the significant benefit to you is
in future times and conditions in having a reference of your own making.

Cheers...

Bill

Offline max2

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Re: Beehive full of honey, add another super?
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2019, 03:52:19 am »
Great weather here.
Not the best time for flowers but the bees are very busy.

Spotted Gum was flowering up Gympie way. Unusual...

Excellent soil moisture there too. Looking promising for later.