Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Why we need gun regulations  (Read 3498 times)

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 17435
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2019, 08:41:54 am »
"Let's pass a law to keep drugs off the street..."--unknown
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Hops Brewster

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 584
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2019, 11:08:16 am »
Hannahbee, as has been quite clearly demonstrated here and in other countries, removing the guns does not stop mass murders.  The perpetrators will use any other means.  They will smuggle guns in from war zones, they will use bombs, they will use cars and trucks, they will use airplanes, knives or axes.  Like guns, these are all tools.  It is the people that use these tools that are committing the crime, not the tools.   Taking away guns will only alter the method, not the act.  To solve the problem of mass shootings, you must address the perpetrator, not his tools.  In other words, people kill people.

When I was 21 years old I witnessed 2 young men get shot, 1 of whom died.  Instead of making me fearful of guns, that experience had quite the opposite effect.  It solidified a decision to never be a defenseless victim.  It is why I am a firm believer and staunch supporter of an individual's right to protect him/herself with whatever tool is available, including but not limited to firearms.  I may some day be murdered but, not before I try to protect myself and my loved ones.
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 5614
  • Gender: Male
  • Practicing non intervention beekeeping
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2019, 06:09:33 pm »
It is why I am a firm believer and staunch supporter of an individual's right to protect him/herself with whatever tool is available, including but not limited to firearms.
Your belief limits your travel to only certain parts of this beautiful country without risking incarceration.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Online iddee

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 9572
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2019, 06:20:07 pm »
I have not been in Hi., nor 3 other states. I have seen all this beautiful country I need to see in the other 46, and did it when it was much safer to travel. I will continue to carry, thank you.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline CoolBees

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 800
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2019, 10:41:54 pm »
Your belief limits your travel to only certain parts of this beautiful country without risking incarceration.

Sadly yes - and isn't that a sad narrative in-and-of itself. Wouldn't you agree Ace?
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline salvo

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 242
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2019, 11:20:33 pm »
Salvo

Online Ben Framed

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2862
  • North Mississippi
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2019, 03:29:45 am »
"A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand."--Seneca the Elder (54 BC-39 AD), Letters to Lucilius

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."--Jeff Cooper

"The media insist that crime is the major concern of the American public today. In this connection they generally push the point that a disarmed society would be a crime-free society. They will not accept the truth that if you take all the guns off the street you still will have a crime problem, whereas if you take the criminals off the street you cannot have a gun problem."--Jeff Cooper

"It appears that the murder rate inside prisons is ten times higher than that outside prisons. It must be due to all those Kalashnikov rifles that are issued to prisoners upon their incarceration."--Jeff Cooper

"One cannot legislate the maniacs off the street--these maniacs can only be shut down by an armed citizenry. Indeed bad things can happen in nations where the citizenry is armed, but not as bad as those which seem to be threatening our disarmed citizenry in this country at this time."--Jeff Cooper

"The data from the 1990 Harvard Medical Practice Study suggest that 150,000 Americans die every year from doctors' negligence - compared with 38,000 gun deaths annually. Why are doctors not declared a public health menace? Because they save more lives than they take. And so it is with guns. Every year, good Americans use guns about 2.5 million times to protect themselves and their families, which means 65 lives are protected by guns for every life lost to a gun."--Dr. Edgar Suter, San Francisco Chronicle, July 12, 1994, Opinion (p. A17)

"You might not know that peaceable, law-abiding Americans use their personal firearms about 5,500 times a day for self-defense.... Not that there are 5,500 defensive shootings a day, as the mere display of a gun and verbal warning to an attacker usually resolves the situation without any shots fired.  In fact, private citizens shoot nearly three times more violent criminals than do the police, while wounding far fewer bystanders than do the police.  The media doesn't admit this, but the NRA compiles new clippings of such incidents in "The Armed Citizen." "--Boston T. Party, Boston's Gun Bible, p. 32-5; statistics from Kleck Study

"According to the National Crime Survey administered by the Bureau of the Census and the National Institute of Justice, it was found that only 12 percent of those who use a gun to resist assault are injured, as are 17 percent of those who use a gun to resist robbery. These percentages are 27 and 25 percent, respectively, if they passively comply with the felon's demands. Three times as many were injured if they used other means of resistance."--G. Kleck, "Policy Lessons from Recent Gun Control Research" 

"There's no question that weapons in the hands of the public have prevented acts of terror or stopped them."--Shlomo Aharonisky

"You can spout all the anti-gun noise you want. You can tell me guns are 'macho' and 'masculine', and accuse me of trying to be like the 'big boys' if I carry one. I don't care. I've been raped, and I've decided that I would much rather defend myself than sit back quietly and be 'ladylike'."--Julie Batson

"Boys who own legal firearms have much lower rates of delinquency and drug use and are even slightly less delinquent than nonowners of guns.--U.S. Department of Justice, "Urban Delinquency and Substance Abuse," August 1995.

"When a government controls both the economic power of individuals and the coercive power of the state ... this violates a fundamental rule of happy living: Never let the people with all the money and the people with all the guns be the same people."--P. J. O'Rourke (b. 1947)

Outstanding Quotes! Thanks Mr Bush

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 5614
  • Gender: Male
  • Practicing non intervention beekeeping
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2019, 08:21:40 am »
Sadly yes - and isn't that a sad narrative in-and-of itself. Wouldn't you agree Ace?
Believe it or not I do.  Which is why I think how gun legislation is crafted is important.  I know how it will be done if it is looked at on a black and white bases.  I don't think most people on this forum will like the out come.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline salvo

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 242
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2019, 08:33:26 am »
Hi Folks,

Apologies for the other night. In vino veritas.

Question: In today's world, which carries a greater stigma? An accidental drug overdose? Or a circumstance termed SUICIDE with no authoritative facts to back it up?

Police said they "will not disclose the method or any other details" of Richman's death, other than it does not appear to be suspicious.

In a case where a regular or even occasional user of illegal drugs happens to overdose, should that ever be termed suicide?

I'm not diminishing anything here. I am still angry,... more so! Did I read correctly that Mr. Richman and his wife have had two children since his little daughter was killed? Was he really a pharmaceutical professional? How did he die? Were there any financial issues?

How did they die? Were any of the recent suicides being seen for depression?

I don't like to be mislead by omission.

DON'T DO DRUGS!

Sal
Salvo

Offline CoolBees

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 800
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2019, 12:23:00 pm »
Sadly yes - and isn't that a sad narrative in-and-of itself. Wouldn't you agree Ace?
Believe it or not I do.  Which is why I think how gun legislation is crafted is important.  I know how it will be done if it is looked at on a black and white bases.  I don't think most people on this forum will like the out come.

Ace - it is my observation that, when viewed in "black and white", the guns would be taken/banned/or otherwise controlled. Crime would then rise dramatically, as it always does in such a situation. And what would soon follow is a dictator taking over "to set things right" from one party or the other - it wouldn't really matter which party at that point. Shortly after, people would begin rebelling - with good reason. And the dictators party would begin "cracking down" - this is the part where the mass-killings begin.

We, as citizens, have 2 choices right now - and always:

1 - 9,500 (average) gun related deaths per year in the USA, half of which are suicides, less than 400 are rifles, and less the 100 are Assault Rifles (data via the FBI - posted earlier in this thread - post #31)
OR
2 - A dictator (usually socialst/communist) run country which will melt down into mass murder of its own people.

Here's the options to each of the above:
1 - a severe increase in punishment for gun crimes would lower #1 above by about 1/3.
Or
2 - or we could choose the mass murder route of over 1,500,000 deaths, average per year, continuously for the last 120+/- years, that a communist/socialist/whatever-name dictator offers a "gun-free" society - 100% guaranteed by history.

Please explain to me why anyone would choose the #2 option Ace?
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Online Ben Framed

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2862
  • North Mississippi
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2019, 12:51:25 pm »
Good post Alan

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 17435
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2019, 01:19:10 pm »
>Please explain to me why anyone would choose the #2 option

Communism simply hasn't been done right yet... ;)
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 5614
  • Gender: Male
  • Practicing non intervention beekeeping
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #52 on: March 26, 2019, 02:28:40 pm »
Alan, obviously you think black and white but your argument gets shot in the foot because there are other countries where the citizens don't have guns and don't have the mass murders that you claim or are they a dictatorship.  Even Russia is not a dictatorship although I will grant you their elections are a farce.  Our present president is very much trying to do the same.  You are so naive, he would indeed like to be a dictator and if he could pull it off he would be the first to take all your guns away.  He is paranoid about being shot also being poisoned.  You know that poison is the preferred way of assignation by Russia don't you?  It may come as a shock to you that there are a lot of democrats that own guns and do not want to ban them.  It is not necessary.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline CoolBees

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 800
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #53 on: March 26, 2019, 03:16:06 pm »
Ace - the countries who can get away without gun ownership  (for the most part), can do so because a) other countries won't let them go down a rabbit hole of dictatorships (thus the meddling in foreign affairs by us, russian, china, japan, etc) & b) they are protected from without by large partners. Case in point today - France, Britain, etc. So these countries do not serve as a legitimate example of what "could be". The USA however, would go down a whole different path [than those countries] if it is disarmed.

As to Trump - I don't know him, and I haven't done any great study of him, so I can't entertain you with a discussion of his motives and/or aspirations.

As to Democratic Gun ownership - yes. Very true. I personally know many of them. Never made sense to me - kind of like Jews voting for hitler imho, but that's not really my problem in the short term. Hopefully won't be my problem in the long term either.

Cheers man!
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Online Ben Framed

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2862
  • North Mississippi
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #54 on: March 26, 2019, 03:34:17 pm »
Ace my friend, either you have secretly been voting Republican or you need to, that is if you and all your Democratic colleagues who believe as you do, intend to retain the right to keep and bare arms. Your leadership has made it more than clear where they stand on this. Fox News needs to do a special report about this. If I were able to arrange it, would you be interested in being a guest?  :wink: I bet Tucker would be more than glad to have you ? 😊😁 j/k Ace the hour is booked!!

Online iddee

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 9572
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2019, 07:39:04 am »
""You are so naive, he would indeed like to be a dictator and if he could pull it off he would be the first to take all your guns away.  He is paranoid about being shot also being poisoned. ""

"Ace is the finest psychiatrist I have ever known. He can tell you all of Trump's inner thoughts and feelings, plus predict all his future actions. I'm just glad I have chest high boots. Hip high would be too low."
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 5614
  • Gender: Male
  • Practicing non intervention beekeeping
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2019, 08:41:52 am »

As to Trump - I don't know him, and I haven't done any great study of him, so I can't entertain you with a discussion of his motives and/or aspirations.
Alan, you are not unlike many of his followers because if they did they would not be.
As to Democratic Gun ownership - yes. Very true. I personally know many of them. Never made sense to me - kind of like Jews voting for hitler imho,
[/quote]

Nothing like that at all.  Most democrats are patriotic and believe in the second amendment.  There is a very small percentage of land area in the US that is metropolitan.  Most is country which has a lot of democrats.  Yes, there are a lot of farmers that vote republican but they are voting for socialist programs.  Socialism is huge among farmers.  A republican would not get into office if they did not vote for these programs.  I am sure it is exactly the same in CA and around the whole country.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 5614
  • Gender: Male
  • Practicing non intervention beekeeping
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2019, 08:42:59 am »
He can tell you all of Trump's inner thoughts and feelings, plus predict all his future actions.
Very sad that his followers cannot.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Online iddee

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 9572
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2019, 09:46:03 am »
HIS FOLLOWERS??  No other human on earth can. Only you can read minds and see into the future.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 17228
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2019, 11:20:35 am »
Quote
Very sad that his followers cannot.

And honestly, I don't care.  I care about policy.  The heart of another is never known but we do know that some of the nicest people on earth (Ted Bundy for example) have the blackest souls.  All we can do with a politician is judge what they accomplish or fail to accomplish.  This is what we vote for or against. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville