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Author Topic: Why we need gun regulations  (Read 3079 times)

Offline kathyp

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2019, 01:20:04 pm »
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The people with all the money need people without the money to do the work

Yes, this is how most people are employed.

 
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so they are not going to wage war on them. 

History does not support this.

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline salvo

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2019, 05:47:29 pm »
Hi Hannabee,

Lot of information since you last posted.

Please pipe in again,... assert yourself,... with comments, questions, statements.

There IS a lot of data in this thread. That's because there are a lot of years that have gone into the thought processes of our posters. This Second Amendment IS a big deal,... to ALL OF US. Me YOU,... the entire population of the United States. It is the amendment that guarantees all the other amendments.

I interject here that I just read of another Parkland School tragedy. A young woman, Sidney Aiello, took her own life, survivor's guilt
Please respond to me. Respond to us. Tell us your thoughts.

By the way, everyone's lives are touched by sadness. I heard it said that: Life is just a series of tragedies, broken only by brief moments of happiness. A lot of us old folks know that to be true.

When I was 12 y/o, my little brother, 4, was struck and killed by a car. That year too, I attended the funeral of a ten year old who fell off a tractor. The wagon full of hay crushed his little chest. As I said my prayers at his casket, I remember how they couldn't even clean the dirt from his work calloused hands. One cousin was stabbed to death by a girlfriend. Another cousin, drug od,... and on and on. We all lose friends, family, parents, children, siblings. My best man committed suicide, depression, leaving a wife and four little daughters. I just lost my dog to cancer. Funny how hard my wife and I are taking that. No guns involved in any of that.

Anyway,... chime back in.

Sal


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Offline kathyp

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2019, 08:20:39 pm »
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A young woman, Sidney Aiello, took her own life, survivor's guilt

I read that too.  I admit that suicide pee'd me off.  My BIL did that and left his little daughter behind.  to me, it is an act of supreme selfishness absent illness or some kind of intractable pain. 

to have been blessed to survive something like a shooting should make one embrace life, not end it. 

but hey, I have been blessed with not suffering from depression or any of those other things that make people despair so what do I know except that if those who do this understood or cared about the trauma they leave behind, they might rethink it?
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2019, 09:34:29 am »
so what do I know except that if those who do this understood or cared about the trauma they leave behind, they might rethink it?

How would that happen when the logical part of the brain is not functioning?
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Offline iddee

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2019, 09:41:17 am »
If we knew the details of her life and living conditions, we may decide the death wan't associated with the shooting. Who knows what the rest of her life consisted of?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline kathyp

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2019, 10:46:18 am »
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If we knew the details of her life and living conditions, we may decide the death wan't associated with the shooting. Who knows what the rest of her life consisted of?

Yes, I also wondered about this.  The article I read said she was good friends with a girl who died, but the parents said she never asked for help.  I am not sure a teen should have to ask for help. 

Anyway, you are right.  There is more we don't know about it than what we do know. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline kathyp

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2019, 10:51:35 am »
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How would that happen when the logical part of the brain is not functioning?

I realize that my statement is judgmental, but I can't feel bad about that. I used to deal with suicide attempts in the ER all the time.  They all had one thing in common.  They were all about ME!  "I feel bad" "No one cares about ME"  "MY boyfriend left ME".

My BIL was the same.  Nice guy and very smart, but never learned to fail and recover.  When HE felt it got to tough and there was no one left to bail him out, he ended it. 

In this thing, I have no sympathy for those who do it.  Only for the people they forever traumatize with their selfish act. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2019, 10:57:11 am »
Kathy,
I?m very sorry you and your children had to go through that. It must also make it hard every time you have to deal with it at work.
Jim

Offline salvo

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2019, 02:31:43 pm »
Hi Folks,

I was going to post about... stuff. But I changed my mind. I wouldn't change my childhood or even my later life for anything. Well,... maybe I'd change a couple of things.

But nobody like to mention the agony caused by alcoholism, the fights, the crying, the grudges....

Nobody talks about the mental illnesses and the people left to to pick up the pieces. The prison. The institutionalization.

The near death experiences. The cripplings and injuries, accidents and otherwise.

Some nut once said: Buy the ticket. Take the ride. And at the end, skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke.

Are the dead looking down, understanding? Knowing all? Laughing? I hope so.

I think of the good times with all those gone on. But I can't tell their children about a lot of those times! I miss them all. But I'm not sad.

I'm sad about my dog right now.

Sal



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Offline hannabee

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2019, 03:44:53 pm »
Sal Im so sorry about your dog.

regarding mental health with gun violence survivors; my friend who lost his mom in the Vegas shooting over a year ago is still struggling. As of right now he is not planning on going to college next year because his dad has become so overcome with grief that he is a shell of his former self and despite therapy he cannot manage to even properly take care of his children.

I would also like to say that I am not for BANNING guns. What I think is that we need better background checks. We need to check for metal health issues, and possible raise the age of buying guns. Where I live, you have to be 18 to buy a rifle but 21 to rent a car. While cars do have more accident rates and deaths than guns, guns have more premeditated deaths than cars.
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2019, 04:50:22 pm »
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What I think is that we need better background checks. We need to check for metal health issues, and possible raise the age of buying guns. Where I live, you have to be 18 to buy a rifle but 21 to rent a car. While cars do have more accident rates and deaths than guns, guns have more premeditated deaths than cars.

In order to have good mental health reporting we need to change the HIPAA laws.  As it stands, it is very difficult for a mental heaths worker to get someone flagged without potentially putting their career at risk.

 We allow 16 year olds to drive and they die at a higher rate than teens die from gun violence or gun accidents yet parents scream bloody murder if you suggest raising the driving age to 21.  Apparently, convenience is more important than the lives of their kids?

Rifle deaths are very low.  There is no reason to change the age. 

You make a point about premeditation, but again I ask you which of these changes would have stopped anyone wishing to do a mass shooting?  That person has already chosen to break the law so they will not be hindered by stricter gun laws.  Taking the two shootings you mention, Las Vegas would not have been stopped.  The guy had no record and to this day, we don't know why he did it. 
The Parkland shooter didn't have a record because of the stupid agenda the sheriff and school had in place that did not have him arrested any number of times for threatening behavior at school, at home, and with a gun.  He should have been in jail already. 

The only shooting I can think of that might have been stopped was the VA tech shooter (handguns) if his mental health status had flagged him before he purchased the weapons. 

All of these "common sense gun laws" sound good, but change nothing other than to impact the law-abiding gun owner who is willing to follow those laws.  While the number of law-abiding gun owners is going up, I suspect the number willing to follow more and more restrictive gun laws is going down. 







They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2019, 05:51:33 pm »
Very well said Kathy.

In the USA ..

Rifle homicides average about 275 per year.
Assault rifles average a small fraction of the Rifle totals.
Handguns average 6,500 homicides per year.

Half of the above numbers are suicides.

Knives kill approx 3X as many people per year as (all) Rifles and Shotguns Combined.

The link for the above statistics is found here ... https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-4.xls

I remember in 2011 [I think it was] that Donkeys killed more people than Assault Rifles.

To put this in perspective, Socialism has averaged 1,650,000 Homicides per year for the last 120 years globally that we know of!!! ... (Don't make me dig up all the statistics on this).

One final thought - the people trying to convince us of the need for more Gun Control ... are the same people trying to convince us that Socialism would be good for America. Wake up folks!!!
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2019, 06:02:56 pm »
... oh, and I forgot to mention, they can't get their Socialism until they've taken (or at least controlled) our Guns ... they tell us we need to give up our guns so less Homicides will happen ... am I the only one that can do the math?
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Psparr

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2019, 06:41:32 pm »
I didn?t take the time to read all the replies to this topic so it has probably been covered already, but we have regulation on illegal drugs, or should I say a complete ban. Does it work? Obviously the answer is no. Guns would be no different and would have far more serious consequences than banning drugs.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2019, 10:08:54 am »
Only for the people they forever traumatize with their selfish act.

Hmm, just another form of "about me".  When dealing with mental issues the help has to come before the deed is executed.  When that doesn't happen the result is usually suicide.  I am one who believes in tough love yet I know it is not a solution for mental illness.
I am certain that there is no amount of gun legislation that will prevent individual suicide but I think there could be good legislation that could curb mass shootings if both sides would come together and seriously work on it.  The only thing we have seen to date is far right and far left and no common sense in the middle.
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2019, 11:16:04 am »
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I am certain that there is no amount of gun legislation that will prevent individual suicide but I think there could be good legislation that could curb mass shootings if both sides would come together and seriously work on it.  The only thing we have seen to date is far right and far left and no common sense in the middle.

If you can name a proposed legislation that would do that, I'd be interested to hear what it is. 

To bad the same effort is not made in cleaning up places like Chicago and the border, as is made in thinking up new laws to impact legal gun owners.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2019, 01:26:55 pm »
If you can name a proposed legislation that would do that, I'd be interested to hear what it is. 
That is my point, I don't think there is but that doesn't mean there couldn't be.  We elect legislators to do that.  The problem is too complicated for me to come up with a simple solution.  It is not my area of expertise.  We don't have a United States anymore.  We have two parties jockeying for power with very little regard for what is best for the country and it's citizens.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2019, 01:56:35 pm »
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The problem is too complicated for me to come up with a simple solution.

there is no simple solution.  We outlaw all kinds of things, yet they still happen.  Blowing up federal buildings and killing lots of people is against the law, yet it was done.  Robbing banks is illegal, but it is done all the time.  People drive drunk.  People shoot people even in countries with very strict gun laws. 

They keep chipping around the edges of the 2nd in ways that make no difference, but refuse to address real issues like gang and drug violence, the suicide rate with and without guns, and the general breakdown of morality in our society.  Since society continues to degrade in many ways, I wish not to be at the mercy of the people who are part of that degradation...and that includes having magazines for my weapons that hold enough to do the job efficiently. 

If you can't meet the bad guy with sufficient force to stop the bad guy you are nothing but a target no matter the tool he/she chooses to use. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline salvo

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2019, 07:06:32 pm »
Hi Hannabee!

Whats this with another "survivor" ending his life.

Pardon me! I'm cooking dinner. The lamb is in the oven. I've had a drink!

Are you kidding me?

Is there such a drive for your fifteen minutes of fame that you would,... that you COULD,... OFF YOURSELF?????

Arguments that "guns are bad" is greatly diminished by this. This is NOT NORMAL. Do you hear me? This is not within the realm of beleivability!

This person was not a sensitive individual, particularly affected by life experiences! This was a NON PC ACCEPTABLE WORD! There's a lot of them out there. DON'T BE ONE OF THEM!

A wise man told me once, years ago: Look at what the stupid people do,.... AND THEN DON'T DO IT!

I should not have posted this at this time!

I'm mad!

Sal
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Offline CoolBees

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Re: Why we need gun regulations
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2019, 10:30:45 pm »
Sal - I have to tell myself constantly "don't post after you drink!"  :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: ... especially when I'm mad. Your not alone.  :grin:
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln