Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.  (Read 7099 times)

Offline Ben Framed

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2839
  • North Mississippi
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #180 on: September 16, 2019, 06:00:53 pm »
Quote
Unfortunately you are right in that a certain segment or percent of people will use drugs. It becomes a pitiful state of affairs if our own government or some rogue segments in our government, become the dealer.

It's a Chicken and egg thing in all drug use.  I happen to think that the demand is there, or the sales can't happen.  There is a great deal of controversy about what we were doing and where.  There is no doubt the CIA did some drug running in other countries, but there is a lot of shadow about how much of that impacted the US.  At any rate,  it is a currency that we used all the way back to the 40s, so it's not new to our more recent history.

Personally, I'd get the government out of deeming certain drugs illegal and punish behaviors, not use.  We do that with alcohol and now pot.  Users are going to use.  Addicts are going to get drugs.  Drug use has had both a workforce use and religious use historically.  Mark Twain was impressed with the use of coca leaf as a workforce motivator.  He wanted to import it. 

Do drugs destroy lives?  Yes.  so does alcohol.  It is the behavior that is the issue.

Yes, I believe one should have the Liberty to use drugs if they wish. God gives us the right to make our own decisions, to have a good productive life or destroy or own if we wish. I am in agreement with Ron Paul on this as long as the dope, drug users stay home and hurt no one while doped up. Restraining from infringing on their fellow citizens rights, liberties and do not disturb the peace.  However, since it IS illegal and off limits and punishable to ''certain'' dealers and not punishable to others, It is certainly wrong and inconsistent to allow the big men, the big dogs, to import, distribute and profit from drugs, while arresting, indating and throwing into prison others who are not hooked up in the system regardless of the reasons or end results of the motives of the powerful. the big men, the big dogs.  Is this thinking no more, than the same double standard that we now are seeing unfold with Roger Stone and Jim Comey?  Or Paul Manafort and Hillary Clinton? Look at who really did what and who the real crooks are. No ma'am it's time to drain the swamp, all the way to dry ground and dig a little deeper just to make sure none are hiding beneath the surface. Time for the swamp monsters, irregardless of who they are, or who their mama and daddy is or was, did or didn't do, to be held accountable. Am I one of the last few Americans, who believe this? Are there others? Are we in America so lost and dizzy headed that we have dropped and broken our moral compasses? Are there others who believe in balanced and fair justice, that lady justice, holding the scale is blindfolded, never peaking, blind to who is who, only seaking Liberty and Justice for all? Are there still Americans that believe right is right and know the difference in right and wrong? Who also know wrong is wrong according to our Constitution, who understand our original laws and wishes of our founding fathers and agree with such?  I certainly hope not but I am beginning to wonder.
:shocked:
Phillip

Offline kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 17225
  • Gender: Female
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #181 on: September 16, 2019, 06:44:41 pm »
Quote
Are there still Americans that believe right is right and know the difference in right and wrong? Who also know wrong is wrong according to our Constitution, who understand our original laws and wishes of our founding fathers and agree with such?  I certainly hope not but I am beginning to wonder.

They are a declining number.  We now have a few generations that have been convinced that if there is a problem the government should solve it.  Interesting that many of the same people who believe the feds should control everything also applaud states ignoring federal law and legalizing pot   :cheesy:  The inconsistency of thought confounds me sometimes. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Ben Framed

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2839
  • North Mississippi
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #182 on: September 16, 2019, 06:49:15 pm »
Quote
Are there still Americans that believe right is right and know the difference in right and wrong? Who also know wrong is wrong according to our Constitution, who understand our original laws and wishes of our founding fathers and agree with such?  I certainly hope not but I am beginning to wonder.

They are a declining number.  We now have a few generations that have been convinced that if there is a problem the government should solve it.  Interesting that many of the same people who believe the feds should control everything also applaud states ignoring federal law and legalizing pot   :cheesy:  The inconsistency of thought confounds me sometimes.

Yes ma'am me too... 😊 Thank you Kathy.

Offline Dallasbeek

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2511
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #183 on: September 16, 2019, 10:51:50 pm »
I read once about cocaine in New Orleans about 1900 having been used by 6 per cent of the population and a study showed that number remaining at about 6 per cent of the population at the time the book was published (I think about 1990). I am not saying that percentage were regular users, just that that many had at least tried it. 

I think a certain percentage of the population will do almost anything stupid that you can think of and that percentage has probably remained pretty constant throughout history.  Why get all excited to find that a small number of people are doing something we would not do?
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Ben Framed

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2839
  • North Mississippi
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #184 on: September 17, 2019, 07:54:51 am »
I read once about cocaine in New Orleans about 1900 having been used by 6 per cent of the population and a study showed that number remaining at about 6 per cent of the population at the time the book was published (I think about 1990). I am not saying that percentage were regular users, just that that many had at least tried it. 

I think a certain percentage of the population will do almost anything stupid that you can think of and that percentage has probably remained pretty constant throughout history.  Why get all excited to find that a small number of people are doing something we would not do?

?Why get all excited to find that a small number of people are doing something we would not do??
I am not Dallas, in order to understand,  start at reply 167.  The meat and potato quotes were left out and attention was diverted to drug users.

Offline kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 17225
  • Gender: Female
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #185 on: September 17, 2019, 12:11:54 pm »
Quote
I think a certain percentage of the population will do almost anything stupid that you can think of and that percentage has probably remained pretty constant throughout history.  Why get all excited to find that a small number of people are doing something we would not do?

Because if you can attach the word "crisis" to something you can demand a solution.  The everyday person can't provide the solution so it is up to the government to fix the crisis.  Poverty is a good example I think.  The poverty level % has stayed about the same throughout modern history.  This, in spite of many government programs and frequent adjustments to the definition of poverty.  Is it a crisis?  I think not, and even if it is, the government is obviously not the solution since they have not budged the % with all of their taxpayer-funded programs. 

The only thing we might have done with our trillions spent on programs is to make people comfortable in their poverty. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Fusion_power

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #186 on: September 17, 2019, 12:52:13 pm »
Given the money spent on the drug war, we could have had free medical care for every American.

I'm in the camp that believes mentally unstable people should not have guns.  The 64 million dollar question is, "how do we determine who is unstable?"
47 years beekeeping, running about 20 colonies in square Dadant hives.

Offline iddee

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 9570
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #187 on: September 17, 2019, 01:30:06 pm »
""I'm in the camp that believes mentally unstable people should not have guns.""

So am I. I think mentally unstable people should be locked up and cared for. All that are not locked up should be allowed to have guns. If they are too far gone to own a gun, they should not be allowed loose in the public.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 17225
  • Gender: Female
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #188 on: September 17, 2019, 03:24:13 pm »
Quote
The 64 million dollar question is, "how do we determine who is unstable?"

Maybe not how, but who? Who would determine who is unstable?  According to the last admin, as a veteran and conservative, I might be unstable. 
 Most of the news making shooters have a history known to the mental health community and/or the police.  Many of them were already ineligible to legally buy a weapon.  Some should have been, but because of leftist policy, were never on record.  Parkrose shooter. 

I am not a fan of red flag laws in general but I do think that in many cases the criminal has already made a threat or signaled that they were thinking of doing violence.  In those cases, there needs to be a way to interdict.  Domestic violence cases also need to be closely examined to make sure the abuser does not have access or tools to further abuse. 

The thing I keep coming back to is that all the actions taken by the nut or the criminal are already illegal.  Which new laws would make it SO illegal that they would rethink their actions?
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 17421
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #189 on: September 17, 2019, 05:48:43 pm »
>If they are too far gone to own a gun, they should not be allowed loose in the public.

If they are too far gone to own a gun, they certainly should not be driving a car or allowed to own a baseball bat, or a ktchen knife...
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline CoolBees

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 795
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #190 on: September 18, 2019, 12:19:29 pm »
>If they are too far gone to own a gun, they should not be allowed loose in the public.

If they are too far gone to own a gun, they certainly should not be driving a car or allowed to own a baseball bat, or a ktchen knife...

 ... Or fly airplanes.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Ben Framed

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2839
  • North Mississippi
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #191 on: September 18, 2019, 10:12:56 pm »
>If they are too far gone to own a gun, they should not be allowed loose in the public.

If they are too far gone to own a gun, they certainly should not be driving a car or allowed to own a baseball bat, or a ktchen knife...

 ... Or fly airplanes.

You are both right!! Lets add a sling blade to the list; remember the movie with Billy Bob Thornton? :wink:

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 5611
  • Gender: Male
  • Practicing non intervention beekeeping
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #192 on: September 21, 2019, 11:06:53 am »
Which new laws would make it SO illegal that they would rethink their actions?

Unfortunately, and I keep saying this banning the tool is the easy way in most peoples minds that are not pro gun.  The NRA is causing the problem because they stonewall any logical thinking ... it is us against them.  And I said this before, the us's are going to loose eventually and when all is said and done you can thank the NRA.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 17225
  • Gender: Female
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #193 on: September 21, 2019, 11:57:07 am »
Quote
The NRA is causing the problem because they stonewall any logical thinking ... it is us against them.  And I said this before, the us's are going to loose eventually and when all is said and done you can thank the NRA.

Let me ask you two questions and I hope you will answer this time.

1. Please give some examples of the NRA blocking logical thinking?

2.  If we did not have a group to lobby for us, where do you think we would be right now on gun ownership?
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline iddee

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 9570
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #194 on: September 21, 2019, 12:34:42 pm »
""banning the tool is the easy way in most peoples minds ""

Is this what you would call a "logical way of thinking"?  If so, you definitely need help. Personally, I think it's just more of your trolling. I don't believe you really feel that way.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Ben Framed

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2839
  • North Mississippi
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #195 on: September 21, 2019, 01:09:20 pm »
Quote
The NRA is causing the problem because they stonewall any logical thinking ... it is us against them.  And I said this before, the us's are going to loose eventually and when all is said and done you can thank the NRA.

Let me ask you two questions and I hope you will answer this time.

1. Please give some examples of the NRA blocking logical thinking?

2.  If we did not have a group to lobby for us, where do you think we would be right now on gun ownership?

The basic question in my opinion Is this; Do or do we not believe the 2nd Amendment is for our protection, or our harm? I say not only is it for our protection as individuals, but for the protection of our American Way of Life; To protect our very Republic of the United States, and its Constitution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Let me ask the question, what if we were to have a rogue segment infiltrate our government and decide to do away with our more perfect union from the inside? How would we as common everyday citizens unite and defend our homeland, our Constitution, our America way of life against the obvious traders, if each citizen was un-armed? Is this not the main purpose of the Second Amendment in the first place? It was not placed there for squirrel hunting! I will venture to say, without the second amendment, this would most likely have already taken place, (the destruction of our Constitution). I will go on to say that the American way of life that we have known for the past Two-hundred and forty-six years would have already perished if it were not for the Security of the Second Amendment. I also believe that the opposing forces (of the freedom and rights that we now and know and enjoy) realize this and are doing everything in their power to water down, or completely drown the Second Amendment. Remember why we broke away for England in the first place? I know its just a movie but watch the Patriot.
My fellow Americans, Be Observant , be Aware, and be wise as serpents, yet harmless as doves!

Offline Dallasbeek

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2511
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #196 on: September 21, 2019, 01:24:09 pm »
Pro gun?  I have a number of guns, but I doubt that makes me pro gun.   I also own a number of hammers, but that doesn?t make me pro hammer.  I also own several each of pliers, screw drivers, wrenches and knives.  If someone wanted to ban hammers because hammers have been used to kill people, I would be ready to fight for my right to own hammers. 

Sure, guns are singled out for protection  in our founding document.  That must be because the founders sensed that some people would seek to disarm the population.  They did not have that same sense about hammers, pliers, wrenches, screw drivers and knives, maybe because none of those things are very effective in defending us from people with tyrannical intentions.

I am pro Second Amendment, but I am also pro First Amendment and pro all the other amendments in the Bill of Rights.  Which amendments would you like to see abolished? 
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Ben Framed

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2839
  • North Mississippi
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #197 on: September 21, 2019, 01:33:56 pm »
Quote
The NRA is causing the problem because they stonewall any logical thinking ... it is us against them.  And I said this before, the us's are going to loose eventually and when all is said and done you can thank the NRA.

Let me ask you two questions and I hope you will answer this time.

1. Please give some examples of the NRA blocking logical thinking?

2.  If we did not have a group to lobby for us, where do you think we would be right now on gun ownership?

The basic question in my opinion Is this; Do or do we not believe the 2nd Amendment is for our protection, or our harm? I say not only is it for our protection as individuals, but for the protection of our American Way of Life; To protect our very Republic of the United States, and its Constitution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Let me ask the question, what if we were to have a rogue segment infiltrate our government and decide to do away with our more perfect union from the inside? How would we as common everyday citizens unite and defend our homeland, our Constitution, our America way of life against the obvious traders, if each citizen was un-armed? Is this not the main purpose of the Second Amendment in the first place? It was not placed there for squirrel hunting! I will venture to say, without the second amendment, this would most likely have already taken place, (the destruction of our Constitution). I will go on to say that the American way of life that we have known for the past Two-hundred and forty-six years would have already perished if it were not for the Security of the Second Amendment. I also believe that the opposing forces (of the freedom and rights that we now and know and enjoy) realize this and are doing everything in their power to water down, or completely drown the Second Amendment. Remember why we broke away for England in the first place? I know its just a movie but watch the Patriot.
My fellow Americans, Be Observant , be Aware, and be wise as serpents, yet harmless as doves!

Pro gun?  I have a number of guns, but I doubt that makes me pro gun.   I also own a number of hammers, but that doesn?t make me pro hammer.  I also own several each of pliers, screw drivers, wrenches and knives.  If someone wanted to ban hammers because hammers have been used to kill people, I would be ready to fight for my right to own hammers. 

Sure, guns are singled out for protection  in our founding document.  That must be because the founders sensed that some people would seek to disarm the population.  They did not have that same sense about hammers, pliers, wrenches, screw drivers and knives, maybe because none of those things are very effective in defending us from people with tyrannical intentions.

I am pro Second Amendment, but I am also pro First Amendment and pro all the other amendments in the Bill of Rights.  Which amendments would you like to see abolished? 

No not ONE Dallas, you said that very well!

Offline salvo

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 242
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #198 on: September 21, 2019, 04:14:02 pm »
Make no mistake about it folks.

Once they have our guns,... they'll be coming for our Bibles!

Sal
Just another Bitter Clinger
Salvo

Offline CoolBees

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 795
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #199 on: September 21, 2019, 06:03:49 pm »
Make no mistake about it folks.

Once they have our guns,... they'll be coming for our Bibles!

Sal
Just another Bitter Clinger


Ain't that the truth. Amen.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln