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Author Topic: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.  (Read 6877 times)

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2019, 12:18:18 pm »
Make sure you keep shopping and don't go to a concert,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Arena_bombing

or

cross the bridge to eat or drink.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack

YOU get real, Cider. Insane people are going to kill people. We need to use a bit of sense and remove the people, not the weapon.
Make sure you keep shopping and don't go to a concert,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Arena_bombing

Oh you mean something like this.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting


iddee I'm sure you're on a loser trying to quote things like a terrorist incidents or others of a similar ilk. You have probably more 
mass shootings this year than we have had in the last 20 years if not longer. What happened to all the CC vigilantes in Walmart, keeping their heads down and being quiet? I'm sure you would be quite willing to back your plinker against an AK47 :cheesy:
cider
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 01:33:59 pm by cidersabuzzin »
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

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Offline kathyp

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2019, 01:07:47 pm »
Quote
What happened to all the CC vigilantes in Walmart, keeping their heads down and being quiet? I'm sure you would be quite willing to back your plinker against an AK47

His plinker would have taken out a shooter with any type of weapon if he'd been there and been able to shoot back and hit the guy.  As for CC people in the mall, my understanding is that the mall is a gun free zone.  Even so, the one CC carrier that was interviewed and armed had chosen to take some kids to a safe place and protect them. 

Is your objection to the style of weapon?  As far as I know we do not know exactly which weapon was used.  Different weapons use different ammo.  Maybe it is the type of ammo to which you object? 

The Virginia tech shooter killed 32 people with handguns. 

We should be asking better questions.  Why are there so many angry, nutty, people running loose?  In my area we have had random assaults with knives, hammers, cars, and clubs.  People have been killed and seriously injured.  The attackers were crazy and should have been locked up, but they were loose on the streets.    The people they killed and damaged are no less dead and injured because something other than a gun was used. 
What has changed in our society that makes people think attacking others is a good idea?  Is it lack of respect for life?  Letting nuts out on the streets?  Social media, 24/7 news, infantilizing young adults, lack of consequences for behaviors, violent video games and movies,  Because we killed God and morality,  all of the above and more?  Is it the way we talk to each other?  Is it fair to call people who support a certain politician or political point of view, fascist, Nazi, racist, etc.?  Then in the next breath, blame the same people for a lack of civility and caring in society?

You can take the guns, but if you don't figure out the underlying issues, people will just find other ways to kill.  Trucks work.  Bombs work.  Fires work.  There are lots of creative ways to kill. 



They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline kathyp

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2019, 01:19:08 pm »

https://nypost.com/2019/08/06/protesters-shout-death-threats-outside-mitch-mcconnells-home/

These are the people who think I should be disarmed.  Pretty sure I don't want them telling me what I should and should not be able to do. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline iddee

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2019, 03:16:09 pm »
Cider, you missed the whole point. I'm not saying who has the most. I'm saying both have the problem. Your gun control did not stop the mass killings and gun control will not stop them here. Both countries need a different approach.

'Of course, as I said above, you know all that. You just want to troll.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2019, 03:18:04 pm »
....   What has changed in our society that makes people think attacking others is a good idea?  Is it lack ..,  Because we killed God and morality,  all of the above and more?  ...


Very well said, as always Kathy. Your total list of reasons is spot-on imo. ... I surely believe that, the lack of resistance the criminals are facing is a strong factor in their decision process. If any would-be criminal thought they would encounter armed (lethal) civilian resistance  (long before the cops arrived) - most of them would change their minds ahead of time.

But alas - we (the law abiding citizens) have been disarmed in most public places, either by laws, or by the courts (think wrongful-death lawsuits). ... so the criminal element has virtual free-reign these days.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Acebird

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2019, 06:01:31 pm »
Because we killed God and morality,
It doesn't help when your president is immoral, habitual liar, clearly a white supremacist and a sex offender.
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Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2019, 06:15:49 pm »
Yes and having 8 years of an immortal President really messed up this country. Hopefully 8 years of having our president president will turn back the clock and correct all of them damage done.
Jim Altmiller

Offline kathyp

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2019, 06:50:21 pm »
Quote
It doesn't help when your president is immoral, habitual liar, clearly a white supremacist and a sex offender.

we have no evidence that he is either a white supremacist or a sex offender.  Immoral?  Perhaps.  He has even been inaccurate, although I would argue that lying implies intent rather than just off the cuff mistakes. 

We have had immoral presidents.  We have had presidents who are sex offenders.  We have had white supremacist presidents.  We have certainly had presidents who have lied to us.  Many were combinations of a number of these things.

Prior to this presidency, we have had both left-wing and right-wing nutters and many who were not definable, shooting people and blowing things up.  I realize it is political sport to blame someone for whatever is going on, but it gets us no closer to answers.  It is not helpful. 

Overall violent crime in the US is down.  However, we seem to have a rising problem of spectacular crime.  I suspect the answer is in the word spectacular. In 1966 we had the TX tower shooting.  It was locally spectacular, but most people around the nation read about it in the paper or heard it mentioned on the radio...perhaps TV news a night.  The church pastor might have mentioned it in prayer on Sunday morning.  That was it.

What do we do today?  We have 24/7 coverage, comments from anyone who will stand still and spew and opinion, and a deep dive into motives.  Meanwhile, every nutter out there is watching and thinking "Hey, I can do that and do it better!".  We have politicians whipping people up on one side or another and looking for a convenient political person or side to blame.

I have not been on FB for over a week, but I skimmed some stuff that came across my phone.  There has been nasty, vicious, from my leftist FB "friends".  I have had enough.  I don't care what the left thinks and I am tired of trying to have that dialogue they keep talking about.  My patients with stupid has flat run out.   
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 11:54:42 pm by sawdstmakr »
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2019, 07:29:22 pm »
   
It doesn't help when your president is immoral, habitual liar, clearly a white supremacist and a sex offender.
     

Your seriously joking Ace ... right?


We have had immoral presidents.  ...

Prior to this presidency, we have had both left-wing and right-wing nutters  ...

Yes - from both "sides of the isle". Idiots, amorals, and crooks - that's not political, that just human nature. No political party required to join that club.


... seriously Ace, seriously. ....
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Offline iddee

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2019, 07:48:41 pm »
""It doesn't help when your president is immoral, habitual liar, clearly a white supremacist and a sex offender.""

No, he was only half white and not supreme at anything. He is also no longer president.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2019, 08:46:00 am »

we have no evidence that he is either a white supremacist or a sex offender.
To an ostrich with it's head in the sand.  You already admitted he is immoral.

Quote
I don't care what the left thinks and I am tired of trying to have that dialogue they keep talking about.
No doubt in my mind that they are equally tired of your spin.
Seriously Coolbees.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2019, 09:14:09 am »
Ace, were you as vocal about Monica?

How about ""I will stand with my father's people?""

Not just a bit hypocritical, are you?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline kathyp

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2019, 11:20:16 am »
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To an ostrich with it's head in the sand.  You already admitted he is immoral.

By my standards, he has committed immoral acts.  If we made lists of those presidents who have and those who have not done the same, the have not list would be shorter.  Most of us understand this and know we are not hiring a celibate clergy member as president.  Not an excuse for immorality, but a recognition that SH and they are human.

Probably have asked before, but please list the thinks you think he has said or done that point to him being a white supremacist?  My take on this is that it is the left screaming RACIST as they always do when someone on the right does something they don't like. 

Quote
No doubt in my mind that they are equally tired of your spin.

The comment was mine.  I will talk to someone all day and all night if we are having a conversation that is rational and factual.  What I am getting from my leftist friends is hate filled crap.  It is not factual, civil, or anything on which a dialogue can be built.  And in the next breath they accuse anyone who disagrees with them as being divisive, RACIST, or whatever other leftist tag lines come to mind at the moment.
This is what has put me off even trying to have that dialogue.  While I agree that conversation is important and sharing points of view is important, I have become convinced that the left does not feel the same.  We have reached that divide that has been coming for a long time and there is no cure for it. 

Those things that held us together regardless of our political ideology are gone and it is the left that has destroyed them.  I see no future for a united country. 

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2019, 12:24:40 pm »
...  We have reached that divide that has been coming for a long time and there is no cure for it.  ....  I see no future for a united country.

Kathy - that is a sad commentary. Unfortunately, I have come to the same conclusion - mostly. The one shining hope that I'm seeing is the young generation coming up now (12 to 25 yr old). Many of them (not nearly "all of them") are asking questions, and searching for answers. It seems that the Bitter, Vengeful Left has not been able to reach them. Or, more specifically, that they have heard the Left and rejected them. Of course this group is by-far the most indoctrinated generation to date - tv media, social media, hollywierd, facecrook, classrooms, professors, music, etc, etc. But they aren't buying off on it - this has been my observation during the last decade. ... so I have some small hope left remaining. Cheers!
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline kathyp

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2019, 01:52:01 pm »
Quote
But they aren't buying off on it - this has been my observation during the last decade. ... so I have some small hope left remaining. Cheers!

IDK, I have a 19 year old granddaughter.  She was brought up in conservative homes, and lives in my home now.  She was educated in extremely liberal public schools. 

While she still has some conservative leanings and enjoys shooting, the rest of her developing ideology is so confused I can't figure it out.  Pretty sure she can't figure it out.
Because she lives in my home we have had conversations about policy.  She claims to be a Bernie supporter, but when we went over his policies point by point, she didn't know what he was actually supporting.  She has never given real thought to cost and implementation of government-run healthcare, or what impact artificially raising wages has.  She believes that genders are fluid, as is sexual preference.  Her last HS English class dropped creative writing to study social justice issues. 

What does give me a small glimmer of hope is that many parents are recognizing that our public schools are indoctrination camps.  What does not give me hope is that to many parents are to lazy to actually pull the kids out of public school.  My youngest son is going to put his kids in public school because the schools in his area "are really good".  My son is far more conservative than his wife, but she is a family counselor and does not want the kids in public school.  She has seen the results. 



When you are done laughing, remember that these people are the result of our choice to allow the state to spend more time with our kids than we do, and that they now are at the highest levels of our government.  Some of our leaders spoke here, as did candidates.

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline kathyp

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2019, 01:52:29 pm »
One more from the DS convention.  this is longer and shows more.


They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Troutdog

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2019, 02:24:12 pm »
""When you have a president that has no morals you encourage a small sector of the population to imitate his actions.  Over the years in the interest of cutting costs you ignore the problem of treating insanity which in the end costs you ten fold.""

You are right. We are filip-flopping this after 8 years of it failing. Hopefully, we will be successful in getting it back toward the middle.
Kool aid drinking antifa stroking libtard.  Job opening for you in venezula. Peckr inspector.

People like you make America suck. Keep your progressive BS to youself and your fellow knuckle dragging basement dwelling bed wetting ignorant ingrates.

What have you done lately to make the country better?
What have any left leaning rimmers done?


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Offline kathyp

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2019, 03:02:43 pm »
Quote
Kool aid drinking antifa stroking libtard.  Job opening for you in venezula. Peckr inspector.

People like you make America suck. Keep your progressive BS to youself and your fellow knuckle dragging basement dwelling bed wetting ignorant ingrates.

What have you done lately to make the country better?
What have any left leaning rimmers done?

Wait!  Tell us how you really feel   :cheesy:

I don't think every leftist is anti-American, but every one of them is woefully uninformed and uneducated on social and constitutional issues, never mind history.  Of course, there are true believers, but they embrace leftism in spite of the evidence of its disastrous results. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2019, 09:07:46 am »
Ace, were you as vocal about Monica?
Who's hypocritical?  He got impeached didn't he?
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Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2019, 09:15:05 am »
Quote
Kool aid drinking antifa stroking libtard.  Job opening for you in venezula. Peckr inspector.

People like you make America suck. Keep your progressive BS to youself and your fellow knuckle dragging basement dwelling bed wetting ignorant ingrates.

What have you done lately to make the country better?
What have any left leaning rimmers done?

Wait!  Tell us how you really feel   :cheesy:

I don't think every leftist is anti-American, but every one of them is woefully uninformed and uneducated on social and constitutional issues, never mind history.  Of course, there are true believers, but they embrace leftism in spite of the evidence of its disastrous results.
Kathy I can see where your coming from re the above troutdog rant. Presumably you now understand the trepidations of right (as opposed to right wing) thinking people. I believe your right, it could lead to a civil war. What a calamity. :sad:
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS