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Author Topic: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.  (Read 5395 times)

Offline Acebird

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #220 on: September 24, 2019, 08:31:17 am »

If automobiles started being used as weapons, they would be be banned instantly, and since there?s no way to easily conceal them, the confiscation would be accomplished quickly.  The steel in them would be turned into munitions for the state and you would be allowed to ride your bicycle to work at the munitions factory, provided your political commissar approved your job application. 


Wow Dallas, that is quite a tale.  Cars have been used intentionally for killing since their existence.  But I think you missed my point.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #221 on: September 24, 2019, 08:36:48 am »
If you bother to see WHY the NRA apposes a given proposed law you will see they have a reason.
Of course they do.  It is called membership which equates to dollars, dollars that can be pilfered, stolen or misused.  The problem is it is not sustainable just like the union bosses.  They don't care.  They walk away with millions while the membership gets screwed in the end.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #222 on: September 24, 2019, 08:59:51 am »

In America - I have rights, as defined by our Constitution, such as life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, freedom of speach, freedom of religion, freedom from slavery, the right to vote, & the right to Bear Arms. My rights are NOT SUBJECT TO THE WHIMS OF THE MASSES!!!!!!!! (I.e. - they are not subject to Mob Rule).
I don't know what bubble you live in but they certainly are subject to the masses.  The constitution is a piece of paper.  All these freedoms have been ignored throughout its existence.  And it will continue.  What we have (some of us) is a right to vote to try and influence what direction the country moves in.  It doesn't always work as intended.  In a sense we are in mob rule.  The "mob" is money.  Money is a direct equivalent to power.  This mob over rules anything written in the constitution.  What representation and influence would the NRA have if they didn't have money?

In America the citizens have some voting rights (not all) but money rules.  Nothing will change that.  If you want to have the greatest amount of influence in a country become wealthy.  It doesn't matter what form of government the country has or what rights the citizens think they have.  People who think their rights are protected by a constitution are fools.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #223 on: September 24, 2019, 10:08:57 am »
...  All or nothing doesn't work too well in a democracy.

For the record Ace - we, in America, have never been a Democracy, and never will be - Thankfully.

Democracy is "Mob Rule" - i.e., 51% of the vote rules - period. Rome was a Democracy.

We are a Constitutional Republic.

In the words of Benjamin Franklin - "a Democracy is 2 Wolves and a Lamb voting on what's for dinner. A Constitutional Republic is a Well-Armed Lamb contesting the vote".

In a Constitutional Republic, 1 individual has rights that outweigh the Mobs vote. Case in point - Proposition 8 here in California (a few yrs ago) - Prop 8 defined marriage as between 1 Man and 1 Woman. It passed by a wide margin. Then it was challenged in court on the basis that the law violated the rights of a small group of people (gays & others). Their case was upheld and the Law was overturned. This is an example of how America is NOT a Democracy - never was, and never will be. Individuals have rights.

In America - I have rights, as defined by our Constitution, such as life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, freedom of speach, freedom of religion, freedom from slavery, the right to vote, & the right to Bear Arms. My rights are NOT SUBJECT TO THE WHIMS OF THE MASSES!!!!!!!! (I.e. - they are not subject to Mob Rule).

Good post Coolbees.
Jim Altmiller

Yes Jim I agree, excellent post. Actually a Masterpiece!!

If you bother to see WHY the NRA apposes a given proposed law you will see they have a reason.
Of course they do.  It is called membership which equates to dollars, dollars that can be pilfered, stolen or misused.  The problem is it is not sustainable just like the union bosses.  They don't care.  They walk away with millions while the membership gets screwed in the end.

It is very possible Ace, that the NRA has moles from the left.  I do not know if the NRA has been completely infiltrated yet. If not, you can bet they are doing their dangest!; trying to infiltrate like the Unions were infiltrated by the left and all the bad things they did as you described! It seems the left mishandles and ruins everything it touches, full of detest, despise, dislike, abhor, execrate and down right hate, for America, as it is obviously trying to ruin our Government! They seek no true justice, if they did Comey, Hillary, Clapper, ETC would be be behind bars! That hate filled drive never quits, never gives up, can not clearly see, the good things that are in this country, and the good things now, happening in this country, (thanks to the voters decision to elect a real leader who does profess to love this country and its Constitution). That hate is SPEWED out daily, just as Cool described a Democracy. Look at Seattle, just ONE example, crul, violent, misguided, hateful people on the left! MY opinion of the left, I have learned from CNN and other leftist sources. All of the above is my opinion. I hope I am wrong.

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #224 on: September 24, 2019, 11:47:48 am »

In America - I have rights, as defined by our Constitution, such as life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, freedom of speach, freedom of religion, freedom from slavery, the right to vote, & the right to Bear Arms. My rights are NOT SUBJECT TO THE WHIMS OF THE MASSES!!!!!!!! (I.e. - they are not subject to Mob Rule).
I don't know what bubble you live in but they certainly are subject to the masses.  The constitution is a piece of paper.  All these freedoms have been ignored throughout its existence.  And it will continue.  What we have (some of us) is a right to vote to try and influence what direction the country moves in.  It doesn't always work as intended.  In a sense we are in mob rule.  The "mob" is money.  Money is a direct equivalent to power.  This mob over rules anything written in the constitution.  What representation and influence would the NRA have if they didn't have money?

In America the citizens have some voting rights (not all) but money rules.  Nothing will change that.  If you want to have the greatest amount of influence in a country become wealthy.  It doesn't matter what form of government the country has or what rights the citizens think they have.  People who think their rights are protected by a constitution are fools.
We are a country of laws.  The Constitution is the document that lays out the fundamental laws which are the foundation upon which ALL other laws of this nation are based.  Without this Constitution, there is no basis for law. 

Without a strong foundation, any construction, whether a building, a ship, a piece of software, a scientific theory or what have you, will collapse sooner rather than later. 

Why else would you think the leftists are so anti-Constitutional?  They know without this foundation our nation would collapse and they would be able to claim their tyranny.

The 2nd Amendment is the eternal guardian that protects the foundation of our nation.
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #225 on: September 24, 2019, 11:47:49 am »
>I hope I am wrong.

I wish you were...
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #226 on: September 24, 2019, 12:16:49 pm »
Quote
It is called membership which equates to dollars, dollars that can be pilfered, stolen or misused.  The problem is it is not sustainable just like the union bosses.  They don't care.  They walk away with millions while the membership gets screwed in the end.

Again, you make a statement and offer no evidence.  Yes they have money and we give them that money to do just what they do.  yes, it takes money to lobby, in addition to the other things the NRA does.

If you want to sway someone to your way of thinking, then please present facts.  Repeating left-wing hyperbole will not do it. 

The constitution is the law.  This seems to be a fact that escapes the left.  It is true that we have not always lived up to it, but that does not mean we should not try.  Consider all the personal freedom you would have it the federal government stayed in its constitutional box.  Why do they not?  Because the masses have decided they would rather have stuff than freedom and the money people you scream about know that giving stuff means they have control and power. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #227 on: September 24, 2019, 01:37:29 pm »
I would venture to guess that the left spends more seeking to subvert our Constitutional rights than the right spends to protect them.

Where does this money come from?  Some, of course, comes from voluntary contributions, but the left seems particularly fond of diverting compulsory dues of union members To causes those members may or may not favor, for one example. 

Ace and others of his ilk rail against the moneyed class as if they all came by their wealth by doing great evil things to him and his like.  I submit that people get wealthy by providing to Ace and the masses goods or services that are of value.  I agree the it is difficult to reconcile the huge piles of cash that some people accumulate with the value of products or services they produce, but it is not for me to decide that it is fair or unjust for a person who cannot write a coherent sentence or balance his checkbook should be paid $40 million to play a sport I will never watch, or that a man or woman should receive $20 million to appear in a movie that I will never see.  So why does the left so viciously attack the CEO who leads a corporation that manufactures a product they do not care to buy? 

I do wonder about the wisdom of a board of a corporation that pays a huge sum to a departing CEO who has all but destroyed the value of his company, but maybe -- just maybe-- the board members have knowledge or wisdom I do not possess.

More later, but I think I'll wait and see Brian's response to what I have written so far, and any comments from others.


"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #228 on: September 24, 2019, 02:28:04 pm »
...
The 2nd Amendment is the eternal guardian that protects the foundation of our nation.

Very well said Hops.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #229 on: September 24, 2019, 02:52:46 pm »
>I hope I am wrong.

I wish you were...

Thanks Mr Bush, I wish  I were too.... Sad isn?t it.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #230 on: September 24, 2019, 09:41:21 pm »
I would venture to guess that the left spends more seeking to subvert our Constitutional rights than the right spends to protect them.

Where does this money come from?  Some, of course, comes from voluntary contributions, but the left seems particularly fond of diverting compulsory dues of union members To causes those members may or may not favor, for one example. 

Ace and others of his ilk rail against the moneyed class as if they all came by their wealth by doing great evil things to him and his like.  I submit that people get wealthy by providing to Ace and the masses goods or services that are of value.  I agree the it is difficult to reconcile the huge piles of cash that some people accumulate with the value of products or services they produce, but it is not for me to decide that it is fair or unjust for a person who cannot write a coherent sentence or balance his checkbook should be paid $40 million to play a sport I will never watch, or that a man or woman should receive $20 million to appear in a movie that I will never see.  So why does the left so viciously attack the CEO who leads a corporation that manufactures a product they do not care to buy? 

I do wonder about the wisdom of a board of a corporation that pays a huge sum to a departing CEO who has all but destroyed the value of his company, but maybe -- just maybe-- the board members have knowledge or wisdom I do not possess.

More later, but I think I'll wait and see Brian's response to what I have written so far, and any comments from others.

I would venture that you are right Dallas.

Offline incognito

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #231 on: September 24, 2019, 10:33:58 pm »

I do wonder about the wisdom of a board of a corporation that pays a huge sum to a departing CEO who has all but destroyed the value of his company, but maybe -- just maybe-- the board members have knowledge or wisdom I do not possess.

Supply and demand. The compensation is typically earned under some type of deferred compensation plan - earned over many years and paid at a later date. Termination (retirement or otherwise) sometimes triggers the payment.
CEO's rarely make monumental decisions that are not debated at the board level. At least not twice.  :wink:
Tom

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #232 on: September 25, 2019, 08:02:44 am »
There are many conservative people in the unions because they have to join the union to do the job they want to do.  Their dues are spent on leftest agendas and they have no say so in how their money gets spent.  Unless, of course, the mob agrees with them...
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #233 on: September 25, 2019, 09:23:10 am »
I think I'll wait and see Brian's response to what I have written so far

What is the point?  You are blind to the fact that Trump defies the constitution.  You are blind to the fact that the NRA is suffering from greed and corruption that is present in most labor unions.  This is caused by the left????  It requires logical thinking to debate any subject.  It is hopeless to rebuttal your nonsense.

CEO's are not the smartest people in the world, far from it.  The absolute must requirement for a CEO is the ability to walk on or over someone else to acquire the position.  Typically they take credit for work they did not do.  They just aren't that smart.  They have a greed within them that when it goes too far they get caught in a scandal and it ends their reign.  Some get their wealth or maintain their wealth using gangster tactics.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #234 on: September 25, 2019, 09:32:28 am »
There are many conservative people in the unions because they have to join the union to do the job they want to do.
No one has to join a union unless it is a government monopoly.  The above average income (in some cases double the average) is the draw to join a union or seek a union job.  If you are making twice what you should you don't mind paying dues.  When your job goes overseas you wake up too late.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #235 on: September 25, 2019, 09:39:27 am »
Ever heard of a closed shop? 
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Online iddee

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #236 on: September 25, 2019, 10:04:03 am »
You are blind to the fact that dems defy the constitution.  You are blind to the fact that the union leaders are suffering from greed and corruption that is present in most labor unions.  This is caused by the left!  It requires logical thinking to debate any subject.  It is hopeless to rebuttal your nonsense.

Closed shop? According to Ace, you don't have to work there. Just apply for welfare instead.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #237 on: September 25, 2019, 10:04:17 am »
>No one has to join a union...

Simply not true in many places.  Some states have a "right to work" law that the Unions can't make you join, but most states do not.  At least they didn't used to.  I don't keep up.  You are correct about the jobs going overseas and the Union being the cause.  The Unions started for a reason, but they should have transitioned from the antoganistic relationship to management into a cooperative one.  No one here comes out ahead when the company goes broke or goes overseas...
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #238 on: September 25, 2019, 10:15:08 am »
I think I'll wait and see Brian's response to what I have written so far

What is the point?  You are blind to the fact that Trump defies the constitution.  You are blind to the fact that the NRA is suffering from greed and corruption that is present in most labor unions.  This is caused by the left????  It requires logical thinking to debate any subject.  It is hopeless to rebuttal your nonsense.

CEO's are not the smartest people in the world, far from it.  The absolute must requirement for a CEO is the ability to walk on or over someone else to acquire the position.  Typically they take credit for work they did not do.  They just aren't that smart.  They have a greed within them that when it goes too far they get caught in a scandal and it ends their reign.  Some get their wealth or maintain their wealth using gangster tactics.

I suppose you are right about Trump defying the constitution, his Attorney General certainly did so letting Clinton, Comey, Clapper, etc walk. Beside that what is your beef with President Trump. I would have thought the left would have embraced him after that?

Everyone knows that the corruption spun by the labor unions was a direct result from the protection of the thugs which infiltrated the unions, by the left. Why do you think unions ALWAYS support the Democrats? And is now seen as the thug party , The Democracy Party. It is a good possibility  that leftist moles are doing everything in their power to infiltrate the NRA, and to a point have, along with any other good organization. The left ruins everything they touch. Including doing their best to ruin the Constitution. Obama even downed the Constitution!!

Iddee and Mr Busch?s previous post I agree with.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 11:12:25 am by Ben Framed »

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #239 on: September 25, 2019, 10:24:59 am »
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« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 10:55:03 am by Ben Framed »