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Author Topic: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.  (Read 5834 times)

Offline kathyp

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #120 on: August 27, 2019, 05:58:14 pm »
Quote
We don't, we continue to be strong in the rights to fully defend ourselves along with defending other good law abiding  citizens, and hope we never have to use the right to do so.

I don't disagree, but as a practical matter, it isn't going to work that way.  I think we can already see that.  Also, as a matter of livability, we need to figure out the mental health thing.  I can't go to Portland without walking by people who are dropping their pants for no reason, talking to lamp posts, etc.  Not dangerous, until they are.  A few weeks ago one of them walked up to a lady and bashed her in the head for no reason. 

I am not in favor of going back to the days of locking people up for excessive novel reading, but there has to be a way to protect society from those who can't or won't be helped.  There has to be a way to get at those who are IDed by people as dangerous, but are untouchable until they actually do something bad.  There has to be a way to get those who won't stay on meds to stay on them or be institutionalized. 

As I said, I don't know the answer, but if one is not found pretty quickly we are going to lose the battle to keep our rights legally.  It is really bad on the west coast.  Our politics play a part in it, but even if we had people with the will to clean up the mess, the courts would protect the rights of the nuts over my right not to have to worry about going into town. 

IDK if I posted this before but this is what we are dealing with.  Seattle is not the only place that has this problem.  It is as bad here and worse in CA. 


They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #121 on: August 28, 2019, 02:38:58 pm »
Real statistics on mass shootings:
https://bottomlesscoffee007.com/2018/12/14/media-hype-questionable-gun-control-study-john-stossel/

This was on Youtube but it got deleted within a short time.  After you watch it, you end up on youtube with a bunch of anti gun propoganda...
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Offline jvalentour

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #122 on: August 28, 2019, 03:10:25 pm »
I just picked up this thread on page 7, forgive me if someone has posted previously.

Wiki seems to have a odd way of defining mass shootings, see link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

Offline Acebird

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #123 on: August 28, 2019, 10:41:36 pm »
That seems to make sense on the surface, Brian, but the sticky point is who decides what kind of people will be allowed to have guns.
Same as everything else, lawmakers.  Unfortunately most lawmakers are also politicians and that is where common sense gets thrown out the window.  Clearly the problem in Seattle that Kathy speaks of is due to politicians.
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #124 on: August 28, 2019, 11:30:45 pm »
That seems to make sense on the surface, Brian, but the sticky point is who decides what kind of people will be allowed to have guns.
Unfortunately most lawmakers are also politicians and that is where common sense gets thrown out the window.  Clearly the problem in Seattle that Kathy speaks of is due to politicians.

Good points Ace

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #125 on: August 28, 2019, 11:31:43 pm »
I just picked up this thread on page 7, forgive me if someone has posted previously.

Wiki seems to have a odd way of defining mass shootings, see link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

Good point jvalentour.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #126 on: August 29, 2019, 10:52:48 am »
It's strange how the question of guns and mental health have somehow gotten muddled together in this string and in the public mind.  I doubt that the shooter who opens fire in a school or other crowded "gun free" place is mentally ill in the sense of having a treatable mental illness.  Sociopaths or psychopaths (I'm not sure of the distinction between the two terms) have personality disorders that may not be treatable, so the situation in Seattle, Portland, etc., may not be in any way comparable to the ones involved in the mass murders.  Not being a shrink, I'm really not qualified to say much more. 

Great video on Seattle, Kathy.  Interesting how the mentally ill are still smart enough to go where they think they can get a lot of free stuff, and the politicians of Seattle have gone out of their way to accomodate them, to the detriment of the voters, who seem good at wringing their hands and deploring the situation, but act helpless and unable to vote those idiots out and replace them with some grownups.  It's going to take some "brutal" action to restore sanity to that kind of situation.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline kathyp

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #127 on: August 29, 2019, 11:25:15 am »
Quote
It's strange how the question of guns and mental health have somehow gotten muddled together in this string and in the public mind.

It's not strange in 2 ways.  First that anyone who would do something like a school shooting is unhinged in a way that the public recognizes even if the mental health community would classify them so other way and second, that we find out later that many of these folks have had interaction with the mental health community in the past.  Mentally stable people don't walk into a school and kill kids.

Quote
and the politicians of Seattle have gone out of their way to accomodate them

It is the same here in Portland, and in CA.  San Fran and LA have huge problems.  When I was in San Pedro last year the tents were visible from the hotel and went as far as we could see.  There are places not far from me that are public trails and parks and have become clogged with trash, crap, needles, and nuts.  People are attacked hiking urban trails.  I took the train from here to the zoo a few weeks ago and they are under every overpass and on every patch of green.  Like Seattle, they are accommodated and millions spend MONTHLY cleaning up after them.



They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #128 on: August 29, 2019, 12:43:10 pm »
?Great video on Seattle, Kathy.  Interesting how the mentally ill are still smart enough to go where they think they can get a lot of free stuff, and the politicians of Seattle have gone out of their way to accomodate them, to the detriment of the voters, who seem good at wringing their hands and deploring the situation, but act helpless and unable to vote those idiots out and replace them with some grownups.  It's going to take some "brutal" action to restore sanity to that kind of situation.?

Zombieland  :rolleyes:

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #129 on: August 29, 2019, 02:30:31 pm »
Quote:It's not strange in 2 ways.  First that anyone who would do something like a school shooting is unhinged in a way that the public recognizes even if the mental health community would classify them so other way and second, that we find out later that many of these folks have had interaction with the mental health community in the past.  Mentally stable people don't walk into a school and kill kids.

I would argue that a real narcistic sociopath is not mentally unstable, but has a brain that's wired from the outset to devalue anyone else and no amount of treatment is going to correct their condition.  Unlike someone with a mental illness, they are like a grizzly bear -- it's their nature to be the way they are.  Like Africanized bees, maybe?
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #130 on: August 29, 2019, 03:30:04 pm »
?I would argue that a real narcistic sociopath is not mentally unstable, but has a brain that's wired from the outset to devalue anyone else and no amount of treatment is going to correct their condition.  Unlike someone with a mental illness, they are like a grizzly bear -- it's their nature to be the way they are.  Like Africanized bees, maybe??

I tend to agree.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 04:03:38 am by Ben Framed »

Offline iddee

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #131 on: September 01, 2019, 05:31:37 am »
Here's the problem with red flag laws. If you aren't total liberal, you are targeted.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/former-marines-weapons-seized-under-oregons-red-flag-law-after-remarks-about-antifa-report
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #132 on: September 01, 2019, 08:44:55 am »
Here's the problem with red flag laws. If you aren't total liberal, you are targeted.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/former-marines-weapons-seized-under-oregons-red-flag-law-after-remarks-about-antifa-report

Please explain the problem.  He was committed to a hospital.  Not for nothing we train our young to be killers in wars we don't belong and then walk away from their mental disorders when they return to the US.  Even as reported on fake news it looks to me to be a good call.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #133 on: September 01, 2019, 10:42:55 am »
""it looks to me to be a good call.""

I guess you don't see too well, or not at all. He said he would only act in self defense, which just happens to be legal, but since it was directed at the terrorists antifa, he was forcefully admitted to a mental hospital, had his personal property seized without trial or cause, and you see it as OK? You must want to live in Russia or Iran.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #134 on: September 01, 2019, 11:01:29 am »
""it looks to me to be a good call.""

I guess you don't see too well, or not at all. He said he would only act in self defense, which just happens to be legal, but since it was directed at the terrorists antifa, he was forcefully admitted to a mental hospital, had his personal property seized without trial or cause, and you see it as OK? You must want to live in Russia or Iran.

Yea, and treating him this way, after he sacrificed this time, and put his life on the line to VOLUNTARILY serve in the Military, after being expected to swear, by our very own Government, and accepting that requirement, being sworn-in to DEFEND The Constitution against all Enemies both foreign and Domestic, which multiplies the badness of this bad judgement situation. A good lawyer should tear this case up!!  Again; Maybe its time to call Dallas out of retirement!!

Offline Acebird

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #135 on: September 02, 2019, 08:53:55 am »
""it looks to me to be a good call.""

I guess you don't see too well, or not at all. He said he would only act in self defense, which just happens to be legal, but since it was directed at the terrorists antifa, he was forcefully admitted to a mental hospital, had his personal property seized without trial or cause,...

I see fine.  Maybe you do too.  What has happened to many republicans is they don't understand what is written.  What a person says doesn't matter it is how they act.  This is why you can't comprehend the evil of Trump.  There was cause, and the seizure is temporary.  His actions are the only thing that will make it permanent.  To volunteer to go kill people in another land that has absolutely nothing to do with the safety or protections of american citizens is the first sign of mental illness.  The military only fueled his sickness.
Brian Cardinal
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Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #136 on: September 02, 2019, 10:15:39 am »
Brian,
I cannot believe said that.
Your favorite President sent him over there, put him in harms way and you blame it on him.
Wake up Brian to the real world.
😡
Jim Altmiller

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #137 on: September 02, 2019, 02:45:32 pm »
""it looks to me to be a good call.""

I guess you don't see too well, or not at all. He said he would only act in self defense, which just happens to be legal, but since it was directed at the terrorists antifa, he was forcefully admitted to a mental hospital, had his personal property seized without trial or cause,...

I see fine.  Maybe you do too.  What has happened to many republicans is they don't understand what is written.  What a person says doesn't matter it is how they act.  This is why you can't comprehend the evil of Trump.  There was cause, and the seizure is temporary.  His actions are the only thing that will make it permanent.  To volunteer to go kill people in another land that has absolutely nothing to do with the safety or protections of american citizens is the first sign of mental illness.  The military only fueled his sickness.

Brian,
I cannot believe said that.
Your favorite President sent him over there, put him in harms way and you blame it on him.
Wake up Brian to the real world.
😡
Jim Altmiller

(Quoting Brian)
?What a person says doesn't matter it is how they act. This is why you can't comprehend the evil of Trump. ?

Brian, Help me comprehend the evil of Trump that you see 👀 so clearly. He seems, (so far), to be a pretty straight shooter. Now I do clearly see the wrongness of JAMES Comey, Clearly trying to form, or at least conspire, a coup d??tat  to oust our, your, President. And falsely may I add.
Phillip

Offline Acebird

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #138 on: September 02, 2019, 03:57:23 pm »
FBI agents are trained to be suspicious.  Comey took notes because of the suspicion.  The suspicion was right.  Trump is a gangster with all the corruptions of the swamp.  He came from corruptions, born and bred that way.
Ben a straight shooter tells it like it is but without lying.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Cider's ?safer? gun free home.
« Reply #139 on: September 02, 2019, 04:30:23 pm »
You have to enjoy trolling for attention. You can't possibly believe that garbage.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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