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Author Topic: Tool to make 16 queen cups  (Read 573 times)

Offline sawdstmakr

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Tool to make 16 queen cups
« on: March 11, 2019, 05:41:33 am »
I needed a bunch of queen cups made up for Michael Bush?s Queen Grafting lesson at BeeFest this weekend and here is what I made up.
Notice the ends of each 3/8 inch Dow are rounded over. One thing that I found out is that they all need to bee the exact same height. The ones that are not make smaller cups.
This was the first batch with a few removed. I just remelted them, reset the posts to try to get them all the same height and then it worked much better.
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Here are the ones that I made up with it in just a few minutes.

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Jim

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Tool to make 16 queen cups
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2019, 05:48:50 am »
In order to keep the wax from sticking to the wood, I put the Dow?s in a bucket of water and soaked the wood, shook off the water and dipped the Dow?s about 20 times leaving it out of the wax just long enough to let the wax film over.
Jim

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Tool to make 16 queen cups
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2019, 09:51:59 am »
5/16" dowels will make cups that have better acceptance...

"Many beekeepers make a mistake in believing that the most important feature for successful cell acceptance is the grafting of the larvae into the cells cups; but a far more important feature is that of making cells of the proper shape and size. The ideal cell would be as the bees build them, large inside, with a small mouth; but it is not possible, or at least practical for the beekeeper to make cells of this shape. Upon several occasions, I have given cells that had been accepted and slightly built out in the swarm box to a colony for finishing, when by accident it contained a virgin queen. Of course, the larvae and jelly were both quickly cleaned out. I have given one bar of such cells to a swarm box and two bars of our dipped cells. The bees seemed to concentrate all their efforts on the cells already worked on by the bees and neglected my dipped cells. The bees prefer to make the mouth of the cell just large enough for a worker bee to crawl into, and it is frequently noticed that sometimes in the workers haste to back out of a queen-cell when smoke is blown into the hive, it is caught and has to do considerable scrambling and kicking before it can get out. I find the best cell for practical purposes is one whose size is between that of the inside of a natural queen-cell at it's largest place and the mouth of the cell, this being five-sixteenths of an inch as given above. In our early experience, many of us, enthusiastic in rearing larger queens, sought to accomplish this by making larger cells; but being large at the mouth, the bees were loath to accept them, and it took considerable work on their part to build them over to the size they should be. When the bees get to work on the cells they mold them into the shape they want, regardless of the size and shape the beekeeper has made them. The smaller cells will give better acceptance than the larger ones; but do not for a moment imagine this cramps the larva and produces an inferior queen, for the bees enlarge the cell to suit their own fancy. For experimental purposes I have dipped queen-cells the size of a worker-cell, and excellent results were obtained. Cells larger than five-sixteenths of an inch are not accepted so readily as those of this size or smaller."--Jay Smith, Queen Rearing Simplified

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearingsimplified.htm#DippingCells
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Tool to make 16 queen cups
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2019, 10:04:24 am »
Thanks Michael. I will see if I have a 5/16 inch Dow and remake them. How many do we need for your presentation?
Jim

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Tool to make 16 queen cups
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2019, 11:09:22 am »
Why don't we do some of each, since you have some, and we can see for ourselves the results.  How many people will be there?  I figure everyone should do at least one row of cells and it seems to work better to do it again the next day as you have had time to process the ideas and sleep on it...  A couple of rows of cells for each person would be nice.  Do you have Chinese grafting tools?
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Tool to make 16 queen cups
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2019, 02:17:03 pm »
Why don't we do some of each, since you have some, and we can see for ourselves the results.  How many people will be there?  I figure everyone should do at least one row of cells and it seems to work better to do it again the next day as you have had time to process the ideas and sleep on it...  A couple of rows of cells for each person would be nice.  Do you have Chinese grafting tools?
Yes I have a couple of the Chinese grafting tools.  Could you bring some.  I will make a lot of cups up.
Is there anything else other than brood and bees that we need?

Jim

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Tool to make 16 queen cups
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2019, 03:29:03 pm »
We should set up a strong hive with an excluder to make a queenright finisher and we will need to set up a starter of some kind.  If you have a five frame nuc with good ventilation that would help.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Tool to make 16 queen cups
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2019, 07:57:57 pm »
We should set up a strong hive with an excluder to make a queenright finisher and we will need to set up a starter of some kind.  If you have a five frame nuc with good ventilation that would help.
I have several ventilated nucs that we can make up on Thursday.
I need to know who wants to do the queen grafting at BeeFest this Friday/Saturday.
I have 8 frames with 10 queen cups each made up and I need to know how many more are needed.
Please let me know if you plan on grafting queens. Respond on this thread.
Jim

Offline capt44

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Re: Tool to make 16 queen cups
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2019, 10:23:50 am »
I made a tool like in the picture above several years back using 5/16 dowel rod.
I sanded the ends to a round shape.
I have a plastic dish with water to set the jig in dowels down.
I dip the jig in melted bees wax 3 to 4 times each time going just a fraction deeper.
I let it cool for around 15 to 20 seconds then make a slight twist and they slip right off.
Bees Wax won't stick to the wet dowels.
I then store them in a mason jar for future use.
The deformed ones get chunked back into the melting pot.
Hey it works.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Tool to make 16 queen cups
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2019, 11:57:50 pm »
Calf,
That is pretty much what I do except I do about 10 dips.
Jim

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Tool to make 16 queen cups
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2019, 10:33:12 am »
So, our small sample size may not be statistically significant, but the bees seemed to prefer the 5/16" cells at BeeFest.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Tool to make 16 queen cups
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2019, 08:28:51 pm »
If nothing else, they definitely liked my 5/16 cups better than my 3/8 cups.