Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?  (Read 1302 times)

Offline FloridaGardener

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2019, 10:05:42 pm »
The Threshold of Futility.  Hope they move into the catchbox.

Offline sawdstmakr

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 10687
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2019, 11:06:27 pm »
It works best if they can walk from one entrance to the other.
Jim Altmiller

Offline sawdstmakr

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 10687
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2019, 07:34:09 am »
Update, this past Thursday, while I was in town with my son, I check on the Trapout. Here is what I found.

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

They chewed through the liquid nails in a very narrow crack in the bricks. It was so narrow that I had to use my hive tool to push 4 bees, that were stuck in th top part of the crack, back in. If you leave bees in the glue, the bees will chew through the dead bees pretty quickly. I then sealed it up again, put number 8 wire cloth over it, added more sealant and placed a piece of cinder block over it and used the pole to hold it in place until it dries.

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

I checked on it yesterday and the bees have not found a way back into the hive. There are now a lot more bees in this hive.
This week I will have to go in and pull a frame of eggs out, put it in another Nuc and bring this one home.
Jim Altmiller

Offline iddee

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 9489
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2019, 09:18:01 am »
FG, you do not trap the bees as they leave the tree. You trap them as they return from foraging. You need the entrance to the trap box at the base of the cone, not out at the end. The tree will be devastated with SHB before they find and go into your box.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 5557
  • Gender: Male
  • Practicing non intervention beekeeping
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2019, 09:29:25 am »
Where is the screen to the original entrance?  They need to smell the original hive without being able to get in.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline FloridaGardener

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2019, 11:01:30 am »
Thanks for all the help, everyone! !
The bee entrance was a crack in the tree over 8 ft high.  That's why it needed so much screening/veiling.
I set up with Phases 1 and 2 over 2 weeks, to "train" them to use a center entrance. The cone is on the center entrance.

I really tried to put the catchbox closer to the cone. I wrangled all the gear for at least 20 minutes, and even hefted the catchbox 6 ft high on the top shelf....not getting any closer. The shrubs are completely in the way, just a few inches from the tree. 
I'll ask the owner if I can cut back a little more foliage, to get the BASE of the cone next to catchbox, where the bees are clustering.  but she was NOT keen on it.

Even if I can't make more space, this afternoon I'll put a 1x4 board ramp, and a sheet beneath it, from the cone's base, to the catchbox.  I didn't have one with me yesterday.

   

Offline FloridaGardener

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2019, 11:16:36 am »
I too am worried about SHB takeover. Has anyone tried doing the kind of trapout that lures the queen in with QMP, or the Hogan trapout method?

Offline sawdstmakr

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 10687
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2019, 12:48:29 pm »
I too am worried about SHB takeover. Has anyone tried doing the kind of trapout that lures the queen in with QMP, or the Hogan trapout method?
I do not think you can lore the queen out. You basically make it so they run out of food and abscond. I have done 2 tree trapouts that the queen moved right into the trap box.

Offline FloridaGardener

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2019, 05:01:00 pm »
So I got the box really close.  I'm beginning to think Paus is correct, it's a lot of work.

Despite the pitch on the cone, there was a clog. I had to cut back the end and rattle it, until a cup of dead bees spilled out. *sigh* I planned the cone to tilt up, to avoid such a clog, but it was too awkward to install without a helper.

The catchbox is level, the shelf isn't.

I used white cloth with little spindles sewn in, from window shades.  It made a bridge and some bees are going in to the catchbox now.  I'm not sure if these are all foragers, or if the whole colony panicked and is trying to abscond.  I'll be checking that catchbox daily and when it's fairly full, I'll replace it. 

Offline iddee

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 9489
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2019, 05:39:20 pm »
Not great, but much better. Just might have something going for you now.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline FloridaGardener

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2019, 11:01:56 pm »
I went back before sunset and there were so... many... bees... on the outside.  They were feeding through the cone, of course, and not going in the catchbox.  I used a bee vac to pick up about half of them (2 gallons, more or less).  I tried to brush some off onto the white sheet and they began to meander into the catchbox. 

It was getting dark. I brought home the bucket o' bees.  I put them in an empty TBH with some comb having some stores.  I locked them in.  It was almost dark and a few didn't make it in, I'm sure they will hang out under the SBB or go into the other hive.  But I daresay I cannot go into the bee yard for three days to give them a frame of brood, until they forget me.   They are not calm like my tame bees.

Offline sawdstmakr

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 10687
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2019, 08:41:25 am »
If the bees are feeding through the cone, you need to add a piece of window screen over it to stop the transfer of food. I had this happen last year. They cannot transfer pollen just nectar and water.
Jim Altmiller

Offline FloridaGardener

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2019, 02:59:26 pm »
@Paus - Guess what? You are right, right, right.  These bad girls kicked me to the curb.  When I tried to put a sub-cone in the other cone, they came at me full force.  We don't have any Africanized bees in our area, per our district apiary inspector. And I could walk off the cloud by 200 ft away. But they stung me heavily even thru two layers of garden gloves and jeans. Was able to crush the one who got into my zippered, velcro-sealed bonnet. By contrast, I hardly need nitrile gloves for my other bees.

I think the bee-tree colony is so big and strong that they were angered, not intimidated by the vac.  I have a Ryobi (battery) dustbuster with low suction, a hose with smooth interior, and a microfiber cloth for them to land on.  But I had to give up after only a few hundred bees. (I'd tried to get some house bees to put with a frame of brood from my docile queen.) 

After I hived them, there was fighting, they tore out pupae, and I had to put the robbing screen on my second hive (which is quite strong) because these bad girls were trying to fight.  I guess that's why they're survivors.  In a week I'll see if they made queen cells from that frame of eggs & brood.  If not, I'm afraid it's soapy water for them, because I sure don't want crabby laying workers from this lot. 

I'm going to give up on this trapout, unless I get motivated to do a "Hogan" queen catchbox.  If their queen is with them, perhaps they'll be more cooperative.  I'm recuperating first. 

Offline FloridaGardener

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2019, 07:21:31 pm »
Bee Tree Mean Girls

Didn't realize they were so tiny compared with my tame bees.

Tame bees are foundationless, make their own sizes.

Starting to wonder, are the Bee Tree Mean Girls.... hybrid AHB? or maybe German Black Bees?  Our area of 4,300 homes was built by developers who barged Hebel Block building materials from Germany.
https://www.emeraldcoastmagazine.com/raimund-herden-the-optimistic-visionary-behind-bluewater-bay/
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 07:59:43 pm by FloridaGardener »

Online Ben Framed

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2599
  • North Mississippi
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2019, 02:22:04 am »
Hello FloridaGardener, this has been an interesting topic and post. How did this work out for you? You had said, ''I'm going to give up on this trapout, unless I get motivated to do a "Hogan" queen catchbox.'' What did you decide? If you don't like their disposition once mission is accomplished, you can always re-queen?

Jim, how did your trap out work out? Any more pictures?

Offline FloridaGardener

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2019, 04:56:35 pm »
Thanks for asking.  Some trapped-out bees in the catchbox did draw comb and nurse along a single frame of brood.  Now, that colony has a daughter-queen of my Best Girl, and she's busy in 6 frames with all her own friendly progeny at this point.

Re: the massive feral hive - FREE BEES, U-HAUL
I actually just contacted the apiary inspector to see if anyone wants to vac them out. The owner wants them gone.  But no one I know wants to vac them out for free.  Zip code is 32578 - PM me and I will meet you there!  True, the Q will likely not come out.  But some comb is longer and accessible now.  If someone wants tiny-bee genetics, they could raise another Q from this line.

I was tipped off to another colony in a pine tree - a smaller colony of what appear to be black-and-tan Carniolans established through last winter.  When I have time, I'll try a "Hogan" catchbox for them.  In the meantime, my Best Q has been so busy that I'm kept on the run to assemble hives for splits.

Online Ben Framed

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2599
  • North Mississippi
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2019, 05:16:53 pm »
?PM me and I will meet you there! ?

  No thanks! Even If I lived right down the street, My view on trap outs hasn?t changed since I gave my opinion after you ask what we think back in March. I answered, Trap-outs seem tough, slow, time consuming, stop signs to me. Everyone to his own choosing. Just my opinion.
   I was rooting for you though!! At least you gave it a try.  But I will add, with the success that Jim has had, Trap outs do not seem hopeless. I might change my mind and try one someday.
Phillip

Offline sawdstmakr

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 10687
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2019, 06:50:54 pm »
I have had a lot of success with trapouts. 3 times I have had the queen move right into the Nuc box outside of the trapout. I usually get 2 nucs from a trapout.
Jim Altmiller

Offline iddee

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 9489
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2019, 11:18:07 pm »
Tough? yes. 100.00
Slow? Yes. 100.00
Time consuming? Yes. 100.00 to 400.00
Total 300.00 to 700.00 or more.
Plus a hive or two of bees.

OH! Did I mention I love trapouts?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Online Ben Framed

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2599
  • North Mississippi
Re: Cut out: Worth it? Yes or No?
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2019, 08:55:08 pm »
Tough? yes. 100.00
Slow? Yes. 100.00
Time consuming? Yes. 100.00 to 400.00
Total 300.00 to 700.00 or more.
Plus a hive or two of bees.

OH! Did I mention I love trapouts?

The love it part got my attention!!  Hum, I just might have to try it!!