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Author Topic: Requeening question  (Read 616 times)

Offline Nwf Bees

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Requeening question
« on: February 10, 2019, 12:02:26 am »
Hello, i currently have 7 single deep hives (five 8 frames and two 5 frames) two were requeened in the fall due to their temper problems but now i need to requeen the others for the same reason. What i am wondering is i am trying to get the hives requeened before the old queens lay drones because my thinking is if the queens get replaced after the drones are layed then any splits i do in the spring the virgin queens could mate with the drones that carry the bad temper genes is this correct ??

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Requeening question
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2019, 01:21:54 pm »
NWF,
Did you have a flow going on when you did your last inspection?  What time of day was it. If you are doing inspections when most of the field bees are in the hive due to time of day or lack of a flow, you have to expect the bees to bee a little grumpy.
How you smoke them makes a big difference. Have you read my smoking recommendations posted on this site.
Do you intend to come to BeeFest?
Jim

Offline Nwf Bees

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Re: Requeening question
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2019, 03:04:04 pm »
   The last inspections i did was yesterday around 10:30am sun was shining and bees were flying and bringing pollen in, i havent read your smoking  recommendations yet but i have tried smoking ( cool white smoke from pine needles ) all different ways and different times of the day but as soon as you lift the lid a little to give them a gentle puff about 10 shoot out and pop your arms and hands and 3 stung my jacket just that quick, if you try a puff of smoke at the entrance they come after you also, i have even tried no smoke and they are still mad bees, i bought them from a honey producer and looking back i think they were his culls due to their temper the best thing about them is their numbers they are strong hives but they are too mean for me.

   The two gentle hives i have i can work in a tee shirt and shorts and i want more like this, this is why i am trying to requeen before they lay drones. When do queens start laying drones is it temperature related ? I think the earliest i can get the queens like i want is march - april. What can i do if i cant get my queens in time ? I plan on splitting alot this spring and i dont want those genetics. Is there a way i can pull the bad genetic queens and combine those hives with my  gentle ones or would the bees fight ?  The two 5 frame deep boxes have the gentle bees and the five 8 frame deep boxes have the mean ones. What is beefest and where is it i havent heard of it ?

Offline travelbug007

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Re: Requeening question
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2019, 02:45:21 pm »
Hi Nwf,
Yes temperment genetics are passed on by drones (paternal side), hygenic genetics are passed on by queen (maternal side).
A few ideas:
Raise a lot of drones from your gentle queens to help with the statistical chance of getting those genetics into your virgin queens.
Merge 2 of your hot hives (pinch the queens) with your gentle hives so any young bees born after the pinch are from your gentle queens.
Then you can resplit them later.  I think you surest way is to get mated queens from gentle stock, and introduce them.  Its hard to get rid of local drones that carry hot temper as they can live the entire season. once your stock is all gentle, only then can your splits have a good chance of keeping their calmness.

I too had a hot hive -30 bees flying out as soon as I gently cracked the lid.  Not fun.  On the flip side, it was  a very vigorous, healthy and prolific hive, but you have to do your tradeoffs I bought a mated queen and replaced the hot queen.  I am still buying mated queens and nucs this year, and hope to have all good genetics to start my own splits next year.
Hope this helps.
Mart.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Requeening question
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2019, 03:34:02 pm »
Here is the link to BeeFest
https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=51097.0
Remember your drones don?t normally mate with queens from your Apiary. Your queens travel 3 times the distance that your drones do to keep from mating with brothers.
Jim

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Requeening question
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2019, 03:38:06 pm »
Here is a copy of a reply to Lizzie about smoking a mean hive and how to properly light a smoker.
Calming down a hive.
I can make the calmest hive mean and I can make the meanest hive calm. It is all about you handle them and how you smoke them.
I teach the 10 minute and 30 second smoking procedure. Get your smoker puffing thick smoke. Puff 3-4 puffs into the bottom of the hive. Wait full 10 minutes, puff 3-4 puffs into the bottom of the hive and wait 30 seconds. While waiting, slowly slide your hive tool between boxes to break the propolis. Do not bang on the hive tool to do this.
One thing you do not want to do is bang anything against your hives.
Move slowly and gently slide frames in and out of the hive.
Lizzie

I have tried most of the fuels that other beeks recommend. Pine straw works the best for me. I take a small  full and light it and use my hive tool to push it into the smoker. I puff it to get it going real good and then I take a big hand full and roll it up and slowly pack it in the smoker while puffing. I give it a few minutes and then start slowly packing it down with the hive tool until it is tight. All the while I?m puffing it. Then I add more to make it packed full. At this point it should be puffing thick smoke. If it is used lightly, it will last 4 to 5 hours. After it sits without puffing, it quite often is smokeless. Just puff it a few times and it will bee real thick again. Good luck.
Jim

Offline Nwf Bees

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Re: Requeening question
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2019, 09:23:37 pm »
Thank you for all the good information !!!  Do you recommend doing the newspaper combine method ? I will try your smoking recommendations this weekend.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Requeening question
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2019, 11:32:14 pm »
No.
Very aggressive hives do not like to accept a different queen. They will protect their queen while killing your calm queen.
After trying the time delay smoking, if that does not work, just remove the queen and let them requeen. As noted, the drones genetics controls the temperament. You are not in an Africanized Honey Bee area so you probably not have a problem caused by the drones in the surrounding area.
Jim

Offline Nwf Bees

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Re: Requeening question
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2019, 10:54:49 pm »
What if i get rid of the old queen, will they accept the gentle one then with the newspaper method ? We are still getting cool temps over here i wonder if its too early for them to make a queen ?

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Requeening question
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2019, 11:27:38 pm »
What if i get rid of the old queen, will they accept the gentle one then with the newspaper method ? We are still getting cool temps over here i wonder if its too early for them to make a queen ?

I'd like to know the answer to that also ...
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Requeening question
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2019, 12:39:46 am »
You will need to protect the queen, that is, do not remove the wood plug until you know they have accepted her. To test that, pick up the queen cage and slide your finger, bare or latex glove-not leather glove, across the screen. Do the bees move easily or are they biting at the screen. If they slide easily, they are ready. If they don?t after 2 days, go in the hive and remove any queen cells and wait 2 more days.
Jim