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Author Topic: A gift that keeps on giving  (Read 4468 times)

Offline kathyp

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #180 on: June 13, 2019, 11:04:43 am »
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but again, we are blessed to have Kathy here.

My father once said I'd argue with a fence post.  Not a blessing.  Often a personal fault   :wink:
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline CoolBees

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #181 on: June 13, 2019, 12:53:49 pm »
 :grin: :rolleyes: :grin: I have a daughter like that - you give me hope for her Kathy.  :angry: :grin: :cool:
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #182 on: June 13, 2019, 02:17:49 pm »
My son Wesley is like that.  My ex son in law used to say to him The sky is blue and he would have to say it was gray.
Jim Altmiller

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #183 on: June 13, 2019, 03:13:36 pm »
I think most parent / child relationships are like that to some degree or another.

From my experience it starts at around age 12, once they have learned everything.      :wink:
Tom

Online van from Arkansas

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #184 on: June 13, 2019, 09:49:54 pm »
Kathy:IDK.  I don't have a problem with people having little political experience and becoming the leader of a country.  The only real practice for the job in the US is state governor and our results with those have been mixed.  The ability to lead is a must and it is not something most people can learn.  They can do it or they can't.


This is not about education, it?s about overconfidence.  I know of a confidant man that was a carpenter that changed the world.

Kathy, did you not study Mao, starved 40 million people, greatest murder of all times surpassing Stalin and Hitler.  Mao thought he had all the answers.  Talk about overconfidence!!!  Fast forward to Venezuela and there is an overconfident bus driver running the country in which he created 1,000,000, one million percent inflation.  Greater than the Weiner (sp)Republic.  Muardo does not understand simple math we learned in junior high.  A bus driver to President, well that is OK if you have a person that will listen to advice of experienced.  Murado would not listen to the bankers, nor to the Economist either and folks are starving due to his overconfidence.

Abe Lincoln was not a scholar, rather a man who understood his weak points and sought advice to learn himself to make the best decisions.  Maurado is an overconfident ignorant bus driver which is a lot different from a smart bus driver.
Van
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #185 on: June 14, 2019, 08:38:45 am »
Competency is the key.  Unfortunately incompetency exist in every profession. This may be the case in politics, business, charities, medicine, or any other organization or profession where leadership may  be elected or promoted.  A competent individual can be overlooked by promoting or electing an incompetent person, by incompetent decision makers, regardless of profession. Either a person is competent or is not.  It takes wisdom to know the difference between competency and incompetency. 

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You can send any fool to college and have him educated. When he gets home you will still have nothing but an educated fool.   
Versey Ledbetter and Jerry Clower.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 10:46:32 pm by Ben Framed »

Offline kathyp

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #186 on: June 14, 2019, 11:00:25 am »
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I have a daughter like that - you give me hope for her Kathy.

Teach her how to debate.  that's what my father did with us.  If we wanted to argue something we'd better have the facts to back up our argument or it was over.   :wink:
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Online van from Arkansas

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #187 on: June 14, 2019, 10:39:31 pm »
To me, debate is non emotional discussion, never violent.  Argument is emotional discussion and can lead to violence.
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #188 on: June 14, 2019, 10:55:14 pm »
To me, debate is non emotional discussion, never violent.  Argument is emotional discussion and can lead to violence.

Mr Van, this is debatable 😊😁 


New Oxford American Dictionary
Debate
1A formal discussion on a particular matter in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward and which usually ends with a vote.
?last night's debate on the Education Bill?
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1An argument about a particular subject, especially one in which many people are involved.
?the national debate on abortion?
mass noun ?there has been much debate about prices?

Webster?s 1828
DEBATE, noun
1. Contention in words or arguments; discussion for elucidating truth; strife in argument or reasoning, between persons of different opinions, each endeavoring to prove his own opinion right, and that of his opposer wrong; dispute; controversy; as the debates in parliament or in congress.

2. Strife; contention.

Online van from Arkansas

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #189 on: June 15, 2019, 06:12:54 pm »
Agreed Mr. Ben, that is why I started with TO ME.  Just my opinion of debate vrs argument.

BTW: I agree with HOPS, page 1.  I don?t know the man, but I agree with what he post.  The fella just uses good ol common sense, an uprightly sounding person with authentic values...like Mr. Ben and others I might add.

HOPS for President.
Van
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #190 on: June 15, 2019, 06:54:59 pm »
Agreed Mr. Ben, that is why I started with TO ME.  Just my opinion of debate vrs argument.

BTW: I agree with HOPS, page 1.  I don?t know the man, but I agree with what he post.  The fella just uses good ol common sense, an uprightly sounding person with authentic values...like Mr. Ben and others I might add.

HOPS for President.
Van

Thanks for the kind words Mr Van. I knew what you meant and your angle, i appreciate you and your kind gentlemanly manner Sir.    I figured you would like the ironic humor which was intended by my post, (Debate and debatable), going hand in hand. Hops would know how to drain the swamp...  Kathy also, in fact we have several here with that good ole common sense.  😁😁

Online iddee

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #191 on: June 15, 2019, 07:48:55 pm »
Lot of good folks here, and one old grouch from NC.   :tongue:
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Online Ben Framed

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #192 on: June 15, 2019, 07:54:25 pm »
Lot of good folks here, and one old grouch from NC.   :tongue:

I would not trade that ole WISE grouch from NC for a gold monkey! .   :tongue:
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 12:15:30 am by Ben Framed »

Online van from Arkansas

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #193 on: June 15, 2019, 10:34:04 pm »
Lot of good folks here, and one old grouch from NC.   :tongue:

One old grouch?  I know of an old fert in Arkansas, that makes two of us: one grouch and one old fert.  To bad we are not neighbors.
Bless the Beekeepers.  Dealing with venomous insects takes courage, patience, dedication and a desire to be with nature.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #194 on: June 15, 2019, 11:15:41 pm »
Lot of good folks here, and one old grouch from NC.   :tongue:

I would not trade that ole WISE grouch from N C  for a  gold monkey!!! .   :tongue:

One old grouch?  I know of an old fert in Arkansas, that makes two of us: one grouch and one old fert.  To bad we are not neighbors.


That goes for you too Mr Van. 😁

Offline kathyp

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #195 on: June 18, 2019, 04:30:19 pm »
anyone can have an argument about anything.  Debate requires that you be able to back your position.  Backing your position require study on the subject.  In fact, it requires that you study both sides in order to make a convincing argument.

Back in the pre-internet days, my father would drop us at the library and tell us to study our subject before we continued our argument.  If we couldn't back what we were saying, we couldn't continue.   :wink:
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Online Ben Framed

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #196 on: June 18, 2019, 07:21:04 pm »
anyone can have an argument about anything.  Debate requires that you be able to back your position.  Backing your position require study on the subject.  In fact, it requires that you study both sides in order to make a convincing argument.

Back in the pre-internet days, my father would drop us at the library and tell us to study our subject before we continued our argument.  If we couldn't back what we were saying, we couldn't continue.   :wink:

Your dad was a wise and caring man to go to this distance in order to teach you kids how to think for yourselves with an open mind seeking the facts of the matter. Very commendable.  Thank you for sharing this Kathy.
Phillip


Offline kathyp

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #197 on: June 18, 2019, 07:38:23 pm »
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Your dad was a wise and caring man to go to this distance in order to teach you kids how to think for yourselves with an open mind seeking the facts of the matter. Very commendable.  Thank you for sharing this Kathy.

Or he got tired of listening to us and the library was a good place to dump us.  He also got us all a set of boxing gloves!   :grin:
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Online iddee

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #198 on: June 18, 2019, 08:11:17 pm »
We never had boxing gloves, but there were rifles and shotguns in every corner, so the arguments never escalated very far.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Online Ben Framed

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #199 on: June 18, 2019, 10:19:19 pm »
We never had boxing gloves, but there were rifles and shotguns in every corner, so the arguments never escalated very far.
Quote
Your dad was a wise and caring man to go to this distance in order to teach you kids how to think for yourselves with an open mind seeking the facts of the matter. Very commendable.  Thank you for sharing this Kathy.

Or he got tired of listening to us and the library was a good place to dump us.  He also got us all a set of boxing gloves!   :grin:
We never had boxing gloves, but there were rifles and shotguns in every corner, so the arguments never escalated very far.

 :wink:  it worked .   :grin: