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Author Topic: A gift that keeps on giving  (Read 4830 times)

Offline jvalentour

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A gift that keeps on giving
« on: January 22, 2019, 01:10:43 pm »
AOC, AKA Democratic Representative Alexandria Ocasio?-Cortez is the gift that keeps on giving.  I just love her.  The Democratic Socialist is holding the liberal Democrats feet to the fire for all their broken or unmet promises.  She is exposing the Democratic leadership lies and greed and she wants action now!

Without explaining how to pay for the benefits she supports she endorses Free Medicare for all, free college tuition, student debt canceled, housing as a federal right, taxing the ?rich? up to 70% and more. 

She opposed Nancy Pelosi before she endorsed her, she states we will all die in 12 years if we don?t do something about climate change, Ocasio-Cortez also said that "owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution."

There is a lot more.  I think she truly believes what she says.  Sadly, I suspect Nancy Pelosi has already found her replacement in 2020.
In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy the show.

Offline kathyp

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2019, 01:40:04 pm »
The problem is that a lot of her generation seem to be right in there with her.  They don't seem to care that there is no way to pay for all she wants and they fully embrace her class warfare stance.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2019, 03:26:14 pm »
" The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next. ".    Abraham Lincoln

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2019, 06:00:56 pm »
Even crazier than free everything for everyone here, we want to let everyone in and give free everything to EVERYBODY.  The word "free" should be banned from the English language.  Any sentence that contains that word is a lie...
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline kathyp

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2019, 07:11:51 pm »
Quote
Any sentence that contains that word is a lie...

I was having this argument with my TV when the local news was doing a SNAP story.  Believe it or not, people were complaining that they would not be able to budget for next month because they got their money early.  All the while, showing full pantries including those well-known staples of a nutritious diet like Pop Tarts.  Several times they mentioned "their money". 

People have forgotten, if they ever knew, where government money comes from.  This is why I prefer charity.  When you take from your neighbors you know where it came from and that they are sharing what they have earned.  The government is a faceless deep pocket that just gives you stuff.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 09:38:38 pm by kathyp »
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2019, 07:58:25 pm »
"Their money" --- once people get on the dole and stay there a while, " free" stuff becomes an entitlement, even in government agency parlance.  They are "entitled" to it through some quirk of magic thinking.  I guess they earned it by being born?

Off topic, but I hear about one guy killing another because "he disrepected me." What does that mean, when it comes from somebody who has so little respect for himself or others that he lives like an animal, breeds like an animal and treats his children and the mother(s) of his children like animals?  Should I start another topic on this?  I suspect we all have something to say on the subject. 
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline iddee

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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2019, 02:53:13 am »
My dear friends over the pond.
I do not disagree in all points with you, not at all! On a small scale I got an example: A guy lived for rent in one of two houses of my parents. Oooold place. had the whole house and landscape and a garage for next to nothing. garage was free. then I moved into the other house. For three years every morning in winter I scraped and freed my car off snow and ice. Then I finally decided that maybe I`d use the garage instead, there was no rent payed for it, nothing in a contract. Well - he was angry to the point he never talked with me again. after a while he went off in a huff.

But: Where are all the american citizens voting for the above mentioned persons/positions. They are not in this forum. How come? Can`t read?
There seems a deep division in the US society?

Offline SiWolKe

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2019, 05:24:10 am »
Charity does not work in Germany IMO.

There are two reasons for this: first, the Germans are selfish and avaricious, they hoard their money and donate only to feel better, not to help. There was a stat on the net now.
Second, they are ashamed to accept money that is not given anonymously.Ask the shutdown people how they feel now!
There are also many who are entitled to state money, but who do not report.
This is not published, usually news are about the unscrupulous.

In addition, those who need Charity or welfare money are despised, even if they can?t be blamed for their situation.

A community (and a state is a community) should stand up for their weak and hopeless members.
That is also a Christian value. Jesus says, "do not worry you will be given". Did he take money for healing people? Did he want thanks? Did he want to be asked or begged?

That's why I respect AOC, she has the courage to be a voice for the weak. It does not matter who cares for the people, be it a private person or a community as long as someone cares.
And she is a beautiful happy young coloured woman which makes it even harder for her.

IME She does politics just like Trump, only progressive and without insults.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 06:12:58 am by SiWolKe »

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2019, 06:12:36 am »
well....

.... an old neighbour-woman brings or at least cooks a meal for my old dad about 3 times a week. for money?s sake it wouldn`t be necessary. but I call it charity anyways.

as for despising people on welfare: ask kathyp, sawdust and coolbees about it. I have the impression it is not a purely germyn issue.

Offline SiWolKe

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2019, 06:55:41 am »
People tend to help only those they regard as their own....and people tend to spend money coming from others.
 :wink:
It?s hard to judge people by their actions. In a democracy it?s good to listen to all sides and opinions.

Offline iddee

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2019, 07:47:19 am »
""It does not matter who cares for the people, be it a private person or a community as long as someone cares.""

The difference is, the charity money is donated freely. The community money is stolen from the ones who worked hard for it, even after they donated what they could afford to charity. That's the part that isn't right.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2019, 09:04:49 am »
it`s a matter of mobility, the globe got small.
so pension`s are paid instead of the young ones caring for the old ones
asf.
just one aspect of a change in society.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2019, 10:23:31 am »
I ann thinking that if you all would go back to the topic started by Jim titled--- Mattos? response Don Lemon on CNN-----  instead of being so so confused as who the heart of Americans are, you would be enlightened. Jim posted this topic in good faith. I'm sure with heart felt conviction. Yet, not one!  Not even one of our liberal friends had the respect to reply on this! Why is this? Not one of you, liberals, Either Forgien or Domestic! Yet, If you read the entire post you will see that the subject was quickly changed when this very point was pointed out.    Shame

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2019, 10:55:59 am »
My dear friends over the pond.
I do not disagree in all points with you, not at all! On a small scale I got an example: A guy lived for rent in one of two houses of my parents. Oooold place. had the whole house and landscape and a garage for next to nothing. garage was free. then I moved into the other house. For three years every morning in winter I scraped and freed my car off snow and ice. Then I finally decided that maybe I`d use the garage instead, there was no rent payed for it, nothing in a contract. Well - he was angry to the point he never talked with me again. after a while he went off in a huff.

But: Where are all the american citizens voting for the above mentioned persons/positions. They are not in this forum. How come? Can`t read?
There seems a deep division in the US society?

It's probably just as well that he refused to speak to you.

as for citizens voting for their "entitlements", yes, you are correct.  Many of them can't read, or refuse to even if they're able.  Not trying to stereotype here, but the Demorat party has made it their goal since at least Lyndon Johnson to become the party of entitlements, and it is a lot easier to make the undereducated beholden to the state than it is to enslave those who have learned that at work pays better.  over decades, they have coopted the education system, convinced millions of able-bodied people that the welfare state is here to provide everything for them (even to providing cell phones), and now, they encourage the poor from other countries that sucking America dry is their best bet.   Why?  In large part for the votes.  When a Demorat promises that you will never have to work for anything, you will probably vote for a Demorat.  And that is power.  Filthy, foul power, but power.

There is a deep division in US, and it's growing deeper.  You have been involved in many of the discussions that outline the reasons why.  It is liberty vs slavery to the State.  The middle class is slowly being destroyed by the left and the result is a small population of super-wealthy Elite Rulers at the top and the undereducated lower class peasants placed there to support them.  The free middle class gets in the way of the Elite's goals, so must be destroyed.

My ancestors fought and died to rid our country of the Royal Elite system and to govern themselves.   Now it seems that the socialists are making great headway in returning to the Ruler/Peasant system.  The biggest difference now is that the  peasants get to keep the illusion that they choose their Kings and Barons just because they can ignorantly make a mark on a ballot.
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2019, 11:10:16 am »
Thanks Hopps,  It is not me, that they shunned, this was not my topic that they shunned,   but Jim they did shun, and Jims Topic. Let me add, not just Jim or his topic that our liberal minded friends shun,  but America, the heart ❤️ Of America.... Again Shame !!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 11:55:44 am by Ben Framed »

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2019, 11:20:12 am »


That's why I respect AOC, she has the courage to be a voice for the weak. It does not matter who cares for the people, be it a private person or a community as long as someone cares.
And she is a beautiful happy young coloured woman which makes it even harder for her.

IME She does politics just like Trump, only progressive and without insults.
She demands free everything, without outlining how it is to be paid for.  She demands the rich be taxed until there are no more rich, without considering that there will be no none left to pay for all her "free" stuff when they're gone.  She is nothing like Trump.
Pelosi, on the other hand, is like Trump in several ways.  She demands her own way and refuses to negotiate, calling compliance to her demands "compromise".   She insults people freely (though less directly) just like Trump.    Both of them hide behind the phrase, "for the people" to disguise their elitism.  Keep looking and you will see that Pelosi and Trump are 2 sides of the same coin.   The only thing tha AOC has over of them, is that she doesn't try to hide the fact that she's a socialist.
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Offline kathyp

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2019, 11:28:28 am »
Quote
A community (and a state is a community) should stand up for their weak and hopeless members.
That is also a Christian value. Jesus says, "do not worry you will be given". Did he take money for healing people? Did he want thanks? Did he want to be asked or begged?

That's why I respect AOC, she has the courage to be a voice for the weak. It does not matter who cares for the people, be it a private person or a community as long as someone cares.
And she is a beautiful happy young coloured woman which makes it even harder for her.

This is a difference between European and American thinking.  Europeans have always been subjects of their government.  Their king, dictator, or now their elected government.  You expect your government to be benevolent and care for you.

Americans, traditionally, have expected their government to stay out of their lives and out of their way.  If someone is truly in need, I have no problem taking care of them.  In this country there should never have been federal programs to care for people.  It should have been left to each state.  People have more control over their own states and programs.

If people have chosen welfare as a lifestyle, they should be ashamed.   If people have saved no money even though they have a good job, and find they are going to miss a paycheck or two, they should be ashamed to take from others.

AOC wants everyone to have everything free.  There is no free.  Someone pays for it, but she seems not to have a clue about who or how.  She is a socialist and socialism always ends with everyone doing poorly.  Never does socialism lift up a society, and never do people who depend on welfare achieve wealth unless they are willing to get off welfare and do what it takes to succeed. 

Jesus didn't advocate for government welfare.  He instructed us to be charitable.  That is a personal duty and a choice.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline SiWolKe

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2019, 12:11:51 pm »
kathyp,
thanks for the explanations. You are right about the different thinking, of course.

What about the "working poor" or those becoming unable to work because of sickness? What happens to them? Is it god?s will in your eyes they starve or depend on charity?
Yes I believe it is. A merciless thinking. No offense meant. It?s just I can?t understand the liberty in this. Freedom to go down?

Probably you know something about our welfare system. You are insured ( no choice) and when you get unemployed ( which is hard to do by the companies) you get unemployment support from the payers community.
After that you get "hartz 4" which is welfare money. While you get it you are obliged to look at the jobs the agency offers you, if you don?t take the job they will pay you less after some time.
This system is called "fordern und f?rdern" ( demand and help).

If you get a serious medical condition like cancer you will get retirement money paid by the community.
The costs of medical treatments are paid by the community.

The community has lobbies.
The only exception are the civil servant persons who do not have to pay into the community, which I find must be disestablished.
Those people make the laws and therefore should not be excempted.

Personally I think this is a very good system which had been proven good. If dignified survivability depends on every single person?s working ability this promotes criminality. It explains too why you need weapons.


Offline kathyp

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Re: A gift that keeps on giving
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2019, 12:34:48 pm »
Quote
What about the "working poor" or those becoming unable to work because of sickness? What happens to them? Is it god?s will in your eyes they starve or depend on charity?

Lol.  No I don't think they should starve, but I also don't think that welfare should be a lifestyle choice for anyone who can work.  It has become that for many.  Yes, I do think charity should be the first solution for short term help.

We have unemployment insurance.  It is supposed to be limited to give you a chance to find another job.  We have free and reduced cost medical care for those who are poor.  In fact, if you include Medicare and Medicaid, over 1/2 the people in the country are getting some kind of government money for health care. 

I observe that Germans have a different mindset about things like medical care.  Your people are less apt to abuse the system.  I am not sure why.  If you look at something like the UKs NHS, the opposite is true. 

In this country the opposite is true for those on medical welfare.  They use and abuse the system.  There is no penalty for them if they do this.  For instance, If I skip a medical appointment that I have scheduled, I am going to get a bill in the mail.  It's a small one, but it is a penalty for not having the courtesy to cancel my appointment.  If a person is on welfare and dose that, there is no penalty.  The appointment sits empty because they did not have the courtesy to call.

There is a difference between someone who can't work and someone who chooses not to work, or chooses not to advance to the point of making a better wage.  We have a good economy and low unemployment.  There is no reason for healthy people to be sitting around doing nothing.

We should also note that this is a huge country with a diverse population.  We have 350 million people, not counting illegals.  "free stuff" for 350 million people has never been successfully tried.  India has more people and has given free health care a go, but it is only effective in the cities. 
Obamacare has already cost us a lot of our rural hospitals and providers.  Free will mean even more close.  Like India (or the UK) we will only get good care in a city.  In the UK, that's a short trip. Not a short trip here.

I think each country should do what works for them, but if you are going to spend all your money on welfare, you can't do things like field a military or pay your NATO bill.   :wink:

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville