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Author Topic: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards  (Read 1116 times)

Offline hydrocynus

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Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« on: January 15, 2019, 10:22:22 pm »
Hello, I read conflicting info about OA use and screened bottom boards. OA is a strong organic acid but would it eat my galvanized #8 screened bottom boards ? I have read that people use the vaporizer just below the screen and over a board to seal the hive. I can imagine that this would be detrimental but what if you just seal the hive with a thin wood board over the screen and then treat with OA? Thanks. Making a band heater vaporizer so heat is outside the hive.

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2019, 11:37:09 pm »
It's possible to use a vaporizer on top of the hive instead of under the screened bottom board if you are worried about exposing the screen to OAV. Make a 2 inch high spacer with a notch in it for the wand, place it on the top super with the outer cover on top and run the OAV treatment from the top of the hive. I've been treating a nuc tower that way for about six months and I can't see why you couldn't treat a full sized hive the same way. I place a small piece of metal like a cut up soup can under the heating element to keep it off the top of the frames.
  Sealing the hive by slipping a piece of thin plywood into the front of the hive works but then some of the bees come into contact with the heater element and get killed. A thin sheet of metal would be better just because of how hot the element can get.       

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2019, 11:51:26 pm »
I use SBBs and OAV.  I have a small hole drilled in the oil tray board on the back of the trays of the ones that I built or just under the #8 wire on the hives that do not have oil trays. I added a corrugated plastic board onset the hives for treatment.
Jim

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2019, 03:21:09 am »
OA will eat galvanized steel even if used from the top. In Germany all screens are made of stainless steel. That will last.
Formic Acid has the same, if worse, problem.

Offline hydrocynus

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2019, 07:02:11 am »
Wow. Stainless steel mesh seems expensive. I will make cheap bottom boards and treat them replace with my screen bottoms. I am building a band heater OA vaporizer so my heating element is outside and the fumes are cold.

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2019, 11:17:50 am »
I've found that a lot of the commercial SBB's are made out of pine which only had a life span of about four to five years before they start to rot here in Florida so worrying about the screens rusting out isn't a real concern. Going stainless for the screens would take it to a totally different level for longevity.   

Offline robirot

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2019, 04:10:38 pm »
Slipping in a board of plywood to reduce exposure of the screen, would be no problem. It also prevents that the vapour exits the hive to fast. In germany nearly all hives are fixed with rails/notches below the bottom board to close of screened bottom boards.

But Mike blackforrestbeekeeper pointed out, many screenes are made from stainless screen, some from galvanized (mostly homemade ones). In the styrofoam hives plastic and expanded Aluminium are used. Plastic is no problem and Aluminium also (and cheap).

I also got some galvanised screens, and they rust, yes but still that takes a couple years ro fail.

So best option is to go for Aluminium for diy.

But also if you got Problems with bottoms failing, have a look at the nicot bottom boards. They are really good and don't fail.

Offline hydrocynus

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2019, 07:13:43 pm »
Thank you all guys. I am pretty cheap and make my own bottom boards out of furring strip wood that I buy in 14ft length (1" by 4"). I make several bottom boards out of that. I get my #8 wire mesh from amazon. My cost (minus my time) for the bottom boards are about $4 per bottom board. I have some that are close to 4 year old (painted) and they do not show any signs of rust (SW Florida weather). I suppose I can afford cutting their lifetime by a few years. Will add a solid board before I treat (Luan should work) and leave it on for about 30 min. Luan is cheap too. I have 25 hives but my target is 40 (max allowed for my registration number and especially time for this!).

Offline robirot

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2019, 08:02:16 pm »
Thats way to expensive, i pay about 9$ per nicot bottom and they last 20 years and going + no work. If i want to clean Thema, just pressure wash them, more saved time.

This may sound a little silly now,  and is just to illustrate a point. I did the same ad you when i started, but had to learn that it often is the wrong way. If i build bottoms myself, I'm stuck to wood and often pay at least double to tripple, compared to ready made good quality products.
I even did build frames myself once, that was the wirst idea i ever had. Takes quite long, and saves maybe 10-20 cents per frame.
Build what you can't buy or is just riduliculus overpriced, but else buy it and have a beer in the time you save.

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2019, 02:45:35 am »
if you build the frames yourself, you mean: you bought the wood-pieces and assembled? bad choice. I have made quite a few frames from scratch and they do save a lot of money. but only if ouy do the woodwork yourself.
but on fast expansion, there is usually no time for making them...

My bottoms are nowadays a double-hive-pallet with one screen and one drawer. So bottoms are practically the pallet. I use larch-wood, which is  probably not good enough in Florida. But there should be woods that are fitting to that climate? Apart from that, I would follow robirots-adive to go for a Nicot-bottom-board or something simlilar.

Offline robirot

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2019, 04:21:53 am »


if you build the frames yourself, you mean: you bought the wood-pieces and assembled? bad choice. I have made quite a few frames from scratch and they do save a lot of money. but only if ouy do the woodwork yourself.
but on fast expansion, there is usually no time for making them...

My bottoms are nowadays a double-hive-pallet with one screen and one drawer. So bottoms are practically the pallet. I use larch-wood, which is  probably not good enough in Florida. But there should be woods that are fitting to that climate? Apart from that, I would follow robirots-adive to go for a Nicot-bottom-board or something simlilar.

Nope, meant build them from scratch.
Problem with that is that the cheap wood isn't of good quality and without a mill you only have face to face end joints, whixh aren't very strong.
Now i buy precut frames of good quality. They cost 30 cents per piece (with 3-5 Bad ones per 100) and 77 cents for the most expensive ones.



Assembly with a jig and air stappler.

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2019, 04:28:44 am »
it needs premium quality wood. i use weymouth. I got a very good batch for a very good price. actually, I do get my wood for a good price always. some connections to the saw-mill...
so I got frames which are of a lot higher quality than the bought ones, which usually warp a lot more. assembling is a job...

Offline robirot

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2019, 05:26:15 am »


it needs premium quality wood. i use weymouth. I got a very good batch for a very good price. actually, I do get my wood for a good price always. some connections to the saw-mill...
so I got frames which are of a lot higher quality than the bought ones, which usually warp a lot more. assembling is a job...

Well maybe i should talk to a friend of mine, who lets his frames cut from weymouth by a company in south germany and get the adress. Always forget about that, when i need new frames.
Assembly gets really annoying if you wird frames, just nailing them is fine.

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2019, 07:28:39 am »
I bought a pneumatic nailer (Tacker), but do use some glue, too.
Got some frames from a friend (with brood on the combs) a few years back. More than half I threw away after melting the comb. Nuisance, these warped things. Esp. with a long frame like Dadant/jumbo.

Offline robirot

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2019, 07:33:29 am »
I bought a pneumatic nailer (Tacker), but do use some glue, too.
Got some frames from a friend (with brood on the combs) a few years back. More than half I threw away after melting the comb. Nuisance, these warped things. Esp. with a long frame like Dadant/jumbo.
Yes, melting is a pain. Thats why i resorted to plastic foundation and Foundationsless. Way less hassle. Specially with foundationless all you need is a knife, cut the comb out and melt them in a pot, with plastic let them freeze and scrape or use a pressure cleaner.

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2019, 10:17:45 am »
I got a lot of foundationless, but I use wire anyway, so.... lots of work. melted 50 kg of wax this year (including cappings). need some processing-machinery.

Good way to clean wooden frames after the melter???

Offline robirot

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2019, 10:25:02 am »
I got a lot of foundationless, but I use wire anyway, so.... lots of work. melted 50 kg of wax this year (including cappings). need some processing-machinery.

Good way to clean wooden frames after the melter???
Bang them while still hot, them straight pressure wash with hot water.
Else do it tedeciuos by hand

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2019, 02:52:06 am »
pressure wash with hot water.. expensive. cold water no good?

friend of mine stirs em around in  a hot soda-solution. quite a mess, too. and have to be washed afterwards, too.

I`ll think about pressure washing, though. I been scraping...

Offline robirot

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2019, 04:16:57 am »
pressure wash with hot water.. expensive. cold water no good?

friend of mine stirs em around in  a hot soda-solution. quite a mess, too. and have to be washed afterwards, too.

I`ll think about pressure washing, though. I been scraping...
Well propably possible, but if you got a good pressure washer with diesel or gas the costs aren't worth talking about, with cold water you will need more water which will be more expensive. If you don't have a pressure washer with heater, then you need to use cold water, but i would try to do it on a nice warm day. Then use one of  the rotating Jets (Dreckfr?se) or of the double lance types set to full pressure.

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Oxalic acid with screened bottom boards
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2019, 06:23:09 am »
Fr?se we got. And water is free, own well.