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Author Topic: Empty frame without foundation/wire  (Read 801 times)

Offline SouthAussieBeekeeper

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Empty frame without foundation/wire
« on: December 27, 2018, 11:39:12 pm »
What would happen if I place a frame without any foundation or wire, in between two frames that both have foundation? Since the empty frame is surrounded by a solid flat surface, will the bees build straight comb on the empty frame? Or might they build it crooked somehow, maybe connecting the comb from the foundation to it?

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Empty frame without foundation/wire
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2018, 12:19:02 am »
The odds are pretty good that they will build on the foundation less frame first. They may chew up some of the foundation wax or they build burr comb off of it.
Your best bet is to put the foundation less frame between drawn comb. If you are using foundation, put all foundation frames together in a super.
I have a lot of plasticell. If I put a frame of it in with foundation less or wax foundation, they will ignore the plasticell. If I put a full super of plasticell, they will use it.
Jim

Offline robirot

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Re: Empty frame without foundation/wire
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2018, 05:23:49 am »
They will draw comb in the empty frame.
Most likely they will draw drone comb there.

The biggeat problem with that frame, will be that they will attach the comb, to one of the two combs, left or right to them if your huve is not level enough.

Offline SiWolKe

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Re: Empty frame without foundation/wire
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2018, 06:49:16 am »
Only put in one foundationless frame one at a time next to drawn foundation.
But I had straight comb built on foundationless frame to placing it next to foundation, checker boarding. But it?s a risk, they might build bridges and burr comb.

They will not draw drone comb in summer but honey cells maybe and not if placed in the midst of broodnest area if worker broodnests are next. Drone comb is built in spring mostly.
A swarm will build many big honeycells first with a small broodnest area, but later normal comb with all kinds of cells.

IMO

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Empty frame without foundation/wire
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2018, 04:16:02 am »
Only put in one foundationless frame one at a time next to drawn foundation.
But I had straight comb built on foundationless frame to placing it next to foundation, checker boarding. But it?s a risk, they might build bridges and burr comb.

They will not draw drone comb in summer but honey cells maybe and not if placed in the midst of broodnest area if worker broodnests are next. Drone comb is built in spring mostly.
A swarm will build many big honeycells first with a small broodnest area, but later normal comb with all kinds of cells.

IMO

I agree. Most large cells in the supers are honey-storing-cells.
If you put an empty frame between two drawn combs it helps tremendously that the upper part of the drawn combs are sealed honey-cells and the combs of course even and not warped. You will get natural comb you can`t even tell from a foundation one without looking real close. if they are not sealed they will draw out the cells in the combs and tehy build buckles. the new comb will then be very thin, making everything sort of difficult to draw combs. they are attached to each other then often, too, as robirot wrote.

Offline Beelab

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Re: Empty frame without foundation/wire
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2018, 10:12:50 pm »
If you insert a thin strip of wood into the groove of the topbar, they will likely draw straight off it. Never had crazy comb if it?s just one foundationless between drawn comb.
All my hives are completely fl, just the flow supers have their flow frames of course.

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Empty frame without foundation/wire
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2019, 04:12:48 am »
that will do, yes. Lot`s of organic beeks in Germany do that with the bought frames.
I myself made my own frames. So instead of the thin strip of wood in the groove I formed the lower part of the top bar like a ship`s keel. It`s not more work than adding a groove.
With these they build FL just nicely, if basic rules are applied. No wax needed.