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Author Topic: Is America tearing itself apart?  (Read 3606 times)

Online cidersabuzzin

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Is America tearing itself apart?
« on: October 25, 2018, 02:57:40 pm »
Is sending bombs through the post taking politics to a new level? Already DT is blaming the media, forgetting his inflammatory  tweets/rants. Smacks a little of hypocrisy. :sad:
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2018, 04:22:03 pm »
Quote
Is sending bombs through the post taking politics to a new level? Already DT is blaming the media, forgetting his inflammatory  tweets/rants. Smacks a little of hypocrisy. :sad:

This whole thing is stinky.  All these "bombs" and none go off?  All are packaged in a way that makes it sure they will be found.  DT is not wrong to put some of the blame on some of the media.  They are the main reason for inflamed tempers.  I am not sure it's helpful for him to do that, but he's not wrong.

I don't know what you see over there, but over 90% of the press here is negative toward Trump and some of it downright nasty.  We have politicians telling people to go out and get in people faces, supporting rioters like Antifa, and Hillary telling people we don't need to be civil until the left gets its power back.

I will say again:  The left does not know how to win in the arena of ideas.  They know how to riot and drag people to court, but they can't figure out how to convince their fellow citizens. 

We don't know who sent the bombs or why.  Some of us have our suspicions. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2018, 04:44:41 pm »
Seems to me the bombers are just following old world traditions like Guy Fawkes and anarchists, and our own Theodore Kaczinski and Timothy McVeigh.  Fortunately, they are either not really serious or they are not skilled bombers. Hope they are caught quickly and dealt with harshly. As Kathy points out, the media are to a great extent responsible for the incivility we are witnessing in public life.  Some elements in the mass media have abandoned the neutrality of unbiased reporting and are allowing reporters to slip opinion into the news pages instead of confining it to the editorial columns where it belongs.  When the press becomes the voice of one faction or the other, it is no longer a free press.  I don't want Pravda as my local newspaper.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Online cidersabuzzin

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2018, 05:15:41 pm »
Quote
Is sending bombs through the post taking politics to a new level? Already DT is blaming the media, forgetting his inflammatory  tweets/rants. Smacks a little of hypocrisy. :sad:

This whole thing is stinky.  All these "bombs" and none go off?  All are packaged in a way that makes it sure they will be found.  DT is not wrong to put some of the blame on some of the media.  They are the main reason for inflamed tempers.  I am not sure it's helpful for him to do that, but he's not wrong.

I don't know what you see over there, but over 90% of the press here is negative toward Trump and some of it downright nasty.  We have politicians telling people to go out and get in people faces, supporting rioters like Antifa, and Hillary telling people we don't need to be civil until the left gets its power back.

I will say again:  The left does not know how to win in the arena of ideas.  They know how to riot and drag people to court, but they can't figure out how to convince their fellow citizens. 

We don't know who sent the bombs or why.  Some of us have our suspicions.

"Some of us have our suspicions."


Such as? sans names of course :wink:
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2018, 06:52:50 pm »
I will not be surprised if we find out the Democratic Party are totally responsible for sending the bombs in their last ditch effort to gain control of the house and senate. They did not have any problem hiring thugs to disrupt the presidential election.
Jim

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2018, 07:15:49 pm »
I will not be surprised if we find out the Democratic Party are totally responsible for sending the bombs in their last ditch effort to gain control of the house and senate. They did not have any problem hiring thugs to disrupt the presidential election.
Jim

If they are responsible, do you really think we will ever find out?  Or will it be ignored --at leastuntil after the elections -- by mainstream media?   And only Fox News will report it and be labelled as irresponsible for spreading right wing lies?
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2018, 07:58:51 pm »
I will not be surprised if we find out the Democratic Party are totally responsible for sending the bombs in their last ditch effort to gain control of the house and senate. They did not have any problem hiring thugs to disrupt the presidential election.
Jim

If they are responsible, do you really think we will ever find out?  Or will it be ignored --at least until after the elections -- by mainstream media?   And only Fox News will report it and be labelled as irresponsible for spreading right wing lies?
But don't they? Are you seriously saying they have never done that!....... and you being an ex lawyer! if that's not an oxymoron :wink:
I notice so far it is only the rightists saying its the dastardly leftists who are doing it. alluding that there could be no other people responsible? This is why I posed the original question, both sides are so polarised they cannot look outside their own bubble. :rolleyes:   
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2018, 08:04:03 pm »
Quote
This is why I posed the original question, both sides are so polarised they cannot look outside their own bubble. 

Fair enough.  From your outside perspective, what other explanation might you come up with?
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2018, 08:28:34 pm »
"But don't they? Are you seriously saying they have never done that!....... and you being an ex lawyer! if that's not an oxymoron".

I'm not at all sure I understand the question-- saying they've never done that --  please define who and what.  And BTW, i'm a former journalist and still a lawyer by training, though it's been over 20 years since I've had a client.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline iddee

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2018, 08:30:24 pm »
""But don't they? Are you seriously saying they have never done that!.""

No, but he he is saying they do it a WHOLE LOT less than the other leading news channels.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline iddee

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2018, 08:32:01 pm »
No one has said it was a member of either side, but the dems have been a lot stronger hinting it was a Rep. than vice-versa.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2018, 08:45:14 pm »
The photo I saw of one package showed a pipe bomb in a manilla envelope with a lot of stamps attached.  Not exactly the way a serious bomber would go about packaging a pipe bomb he wants to blow up and kill somebody, is it?  It will be interesting to see what's in the "bombs."

Whether or not the bombs contain explosives, they are intended to intimidate, and that, alone is a federal offense, I think.

Whoever is responsible has to be irrational, in my humble opinion.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2018, 09:13:35 pm »
Quote
This is why I posed the original question, both sides are so polarised they cannot look outside their own bubble. 

Fair enough.  From your outside perspective, what other explanation might you come up with?
Anarchists, deluded people that are not party orientated! it seem that the Right/Left think they have a monopoly on extreme views. If some of these bombs, heaven forbid, do go off it will make the Right/Left take stock and think about the rhetoric they use.  Don't hold out much hope for DT though,  Brennan said it all though! :cheesy: 
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2018, 09:20:44 pm »
I saw that the pipe bombs were loaded with black power and glass. They noted that there were wires going to a device that they did not know the purpose of.
Jim

Offline jvalentour

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2018, 09:22:56 pm »
Cider,
You do know that Brennan converted to Islam when he was Station Chief in Arabia.  He gave visas to some of the 9/11 hijackers.  He is a follower of the Moslem Brotherhood not a wahabi. 
You know this, correct?

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2018, 09:32:13 pm »
yeah, no one should be praising Brennan.  He's one nasty piece of work. 
Given his background, he's been undermining this country for decades.  He never should have been allowed in the door of the CIA much less running it.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Online cidersabuzzin

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2018, 05:47:46 am »
yeah, no one should be praising Brennan.  He's one nasty piece of work. 
Given his background, he's been undermining this country for decades.  He never should have been allowed in the door of the CIA much less running it.
Kathy Do you admit to being part of the Rep 'bubble'? it certainly looks like it. And I always assumed you was of independent mind :wink:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/24/politics/brennan-lbj-bomb-reaction/index.html

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/10/26/trump-presidents-in-times-of-trouble-monologue-dons-take-ctn-vpx.cnn
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 06:01:58 am by cidersabuzzin »
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2018, 10:52:34 am »
Quote
This is why I posed the original question, both sides are so polarised they cannot look outside their own bubble. 

Fair enough.  From your outside perspective, what other explanation might you come up with?
Anarchists, deluded people that are not party orientated! it seem that the Right/Left think they have a monopoly on extreme views. If some of these bombs, heaven forbid, do go off it will make the Right/Left take stock and think about the rhetoric they use.  Don't hold out much hope for DT though,  Brennan said it all though! :cheesy:
So if I am not "party oriented" it makes me an extremist, an anarchist?  Not even close.
Reading my posts you will find a definite bias against both the major parties in this country however, that does not make me an anarchist, but rather, less of an extremist than either right or left wing.  And that is what neither of those wings understands.  All their pollsters call my views "undecided" if I don't conform to either extremist viewpoint.  They (and you) would be wise to consider that my views certainly are decided and very firm, but fall between the extreme views of the left and the right, and contain reasonable elements of both, strongly leaning toward personal liberty and against government interference of same.

As for your OP, is America tearing itself apart? ...  no more so than GB or any other nation with troubles of its own.
stones and glass houses
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2018, 01:35:26 pm »
there seem to be some differences between democrats and republicans lately?
I never saw much of a difference from the outside concerning the party of the president. I guess, foreign politics more or less was a continuum.
Then came DT....

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Is America tearing itself apart?
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2018, 03:21:52 pm »
Quote
Kathy Do you admit to being part of the Rep 'bubble'? it certainly looks like it. And I always assumed you was of independent mind

My issues with Brennan go way back.  He's a nasty piece of work and he should never have had the position he had. In another time the dems would have drop kicked him as well, but that was before they embraced far left ideology.

Quote
there seem to be some differences between democrats and republicans lately?
I never saw much of a difference from the outside concerning the party of the president. I guess, foreign politics more or less was a continuum.
Then came DT...

I don't think it is as much a party issue.  Trump won in a bunch of places that Obama had won before. 
Hillary was a crap candidate, but I think Obama was the one who tipped it against her when he promised more of the same if she was elected.  Folks were willing to give him two chances in office, but more and more people became uncomfortable with him and things he'd said/done.  The idea that we had to be satisfied with being mediocre, that we had to put international interests above our own, and the military actions he engaged in were the most obvious. 
More subtle things were the bowing,  "give grandma a pill", "put on a sweater", etc.  Most Americans don't like being told that there's stuff we can't fix and that our best days are behind us.  They don't believe it.  Trump came along and said we could and would do better, and we have. 

Most people don't get into the nitty-gritty of politics.  They want to see things around them working.  They want to hire someone who can make things work.

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville