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Author Topic: MultiQueen for Rapid Growth - will this work?  (Read 4527 times)

Offline robirot

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Re: MultiQueen for Rapid Growth - will this work?
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2019, 07:54:52 am »
Why do you use swarm cells, is swarming no problem for you?

Since you are Bioland certified, commercial raised queens shouldn't be a problem for you.

This year i had one swarm (but from one colony of a a. m. sicula (and only because i waited to long to discontinue that hive as it was aggressive and left it unopened for 6 weeks).

From all other i got 50% with swarming tendency, but breaking cells once was all that had to be done.

Last two years i didn't had one swarm cell (and cause of this, a hard time of raising queens, they just weren't in the mood to start cells).

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: MultiQueen for Rapid Growth - will this work?
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2019, 10:00:31 am »
I think swarm cells are the best. It is only the largest and most productive colonies I use swarm cells from.
Kiel is now a quite different matter than the Kraichgau concerning swarming tendencies, I am sure.
I don?t notice an increase in swarming tendencies because of this, although I didn?t make a scientific survey out of it...

Offline TheHoneyPump

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MultiQueen for Rapid Growth - will this work?
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2019, 03:04:21 pm »
__________________
THP: You take apart a two-deep-colony, move good brood frames into the running apiary and you take other combs into your nucs. Using the bees with the combs, the bees from just that colony. No bulk-bees brought in from somewhere else. Moving in cells from your building yard. Move the nucs away and leave the old queen with a box behind.
When I did something like that and moved the pallet with the old-queen-nuc about with the full-grown colony next door, the nuc never developed. So it would be better to take the whole yard apart and reduce it to nuc-size.
--> 1. ) Correct what is not fitting, please.

first swarm cells we might get well before we think of grafting, to be honest. The warmth and massive flow of spring start sort of sudden and all at once usually. so real swarming-season is the same time best artificial queen rearing is done. Everything at the same time, really. Bit of a stress.

--> 2. ) How do You build Your starters and maintain them?
________________________________________


1. Absolutely correct.  Perfect summary.

2. Recall those straggler hives? That is the cell starter.  She is easy to spot in the spring as an old queen shutting down, a drone layer, or a poorly mated queen that is not making acceptable patterns. When ready to start QC's the queen is killed, making that straggler hive queen less - this becomes cell builder. Boost it by adding in one or two large capped brood frames from a nearby hive that will be later sacrificed. Add grafts. Once a week remove an empty frame and add a frame of capped brood. When the program is done and do not need any more cells, give them a ripe cell and let them become queenrite. ... ... ... The cell finisher is a nearby strong queenright hive. The laying queen is kept in the lower box with the frames of eggs and larvae by a queen excluder. Capped brood is pulled up into the upper box and empty drawn frames are put in below. This larvae/capped brood/empty frame manipulation is done each time new started cells are ready for finishing. Up to 2 frames of started cells are add into (40 to 60 cells) the upper box, sandwiched between capped brood frames. The upper box (10F) is setup as:   E H H/P B C B C B H/P H.  ( queenless cell starter + queenrite cell finisher )


Summarizing:
- Straggler weak hive(s) are brood boosted and later made queen less to become cell starters.
- Nearby strong hive(s) are used as cell finishers. Cells are in the upper box above a strong queen.
- When drones and ripe queen cells are ready. Strong hives are taken apart to make as many 2F startups as possible.
- The 2F startups are intensively managed to be grown into full hives by the end of season.

Note that there is a minimum mass requirement to the apiary before you can get started on a -rapid growth- projection.  There must be a minimum of 6 good healthy strong hives to work with before the program can start. 2 are kept whole (in case you fail). 2 goto queen/drone rearing. 2 are taken apart for new hive startups/nucs. 

As described, is aggressive growth from the resources within the apiary. If you open your wallet to buy the queens, then the program looks a bit different.

That about sums it up. The information interlaced through all of the above posts can be strung together to make up the plan and the program for rapid growth of your own apiary.  Most critical of all:  Plan and execute.  Make a plan, resource the plan, follow the plan.

Here's to a prosperous 2019!  Let the fun begin ;)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 04:21:42 pm by TheHoneyPump »
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Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: MultiQueen for Rapid Growth - will this work?
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2019, 03:50:07 pm »
THP: Thanks for answering my questions.

some more, for detail:
When you make the starter queenless, do you wait with grafting? How many days? starter is one box only, I assume?
How many cells do you give? Same amount to the finisher?
How long before putting the cells from the starter to the finisher?

Will read your post again. got to bring the little one to bed now.

Might yet need the rapid growth program. Cold is sitting on us and no cleansing flight in sight. pine honey in the stores... not good for bees in winter.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: MultiQueen for Rapid Growth - will this work?
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2019, 02:20:47 pm »
THP: Thanks for answering my questions.

some more, for detail:
When you make the starter queenless, do you wait with grafting? How many days? starter is one box only, I assume?
How many cells do you give? Same amount to the finisher?
How long before putting the cells from the starter to the finisher?

Will read your post again. got to bring the little one to bed now.

Might yet need the rapid growth program. Cold is sitting on us and no cleansing flight in sight. pine honey in the stores... not good for bees in winter.

It is difficult to get into describing a queen rearing program in a forum post and in context of this thread. I know you appreciate there are too many details to address in this format. Further, just as there are different methods to hive management, there are as many to queen rearing. ( I would be amiable to take up detailed discussion in email/PM )

Without taking a deep dive, I can offer only summary points for your latest questions.
- 1 day. Kill queen, graft later the same day or the next day. For next 5 days be sure to thoroughly check all frames for emergency cells (from the old queen), destroy them. OR you can wait 4 to 6 days before starting the grafts. I don't wait as doing so wastes precious calendar time in my short season. I instead take a few moments to inspect the frames in the starter each time am adding grafts.
- That is correct, each starter is one 10F box
- 1 to 2 graft frames of 30 cells each, 30-60 cells, depends on how many bees are in the starter at the time. Also weekly add capped/emerging brood as needed to keep it populated and nurse bees rotating.
- Cells are left in the starter until cups are drawn 3mm long then moved to the finisher. This is generally 1 to 2 days in the starter.
- Cells in finisher are spot checked visually daily, starting the day before the cells are expected to be capped. Some cells get capped quicker some are later. This is a critical check point; the expected queen emergence date is advanced or delayed based on the observed date capped. The work plan on the calendar for nuc day is adjusted based on this. On day 5 after the capping day, the nucs are made and cells are installed.

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Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: MultiQueen for Rapid Growth - will this work?
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2019, 03:54:09 pm »
@THP:
I will call on that, with the PMs!

But just one more question, as others might profit:
How many cells per finisher?
Finisher: Strong going two-deep-hive, 1 brood box with excluder on top. Grafts go in between (open?) brood frames in the top box, moved from below.
Correct?

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: MultiQueen for Rapid Growth - will this work?
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2019, 04:13:15 pm »
In the upper box of the finisher: 30 cells per frame, 2 frames - 60 cells max, sandwiched between CAPPED emerging brood. The only open cells in the upper box are the queen cells.
All open brood is down below the qe with the queen, along with at least 2 empty frames for her to continue laying in.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 03:13:08 pm by TheHoneyPump »
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Offline robirot

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Re: MultiQueen for Rapid Growth - will this work?
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2019, 04:16:35 pm »
In the upper box of the finisher: 30 cells per frame, 2 frames - 60 cells max, sandwiched between CAPPED emerging brood. The only open cells in the upper box are the queen cells.
All open brood is down below the qe with the queen, along with at least 2 empty frames for her to continue laying in.
What 60 cells per finisher?

7-10 betwen uncapped brood (to draw nurse bees up). Move at day 5 into incubator.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: MultiQueen for Rapid Growth - will this work?
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2019, 03:02:47 pm »
As described;  The finisher serves both purposes of completing and capping the cells as wells as is the incubator.

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