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Author Topic: Undercoat with primer?  (Read 1293 times)

Offline SouthAussieBeekeeper

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Undercoat with primer?
« on: August 04, 2018, 06:41:11 am »
Is it important to apply a layer of primer to a super before painting the two outside layers of paint?

If so, can paint diluted with some water work as a primer? Can one do anything with linseed oil?

Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2018, 06:49:52 am »
SAB,
I just use 2 coats of outdoor paint. Some of my hives are 8 years old with no signs of pealing. We have the worst weather for being hard on paint due to constant high humidity.   I would not worry about priming.
Jim

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2018, 12:16:24 pm »
Is it important to apply a layer of primer to a super before painting the two outside layers of paint?

If so, can paint diluted with some water work as a primer? Can one do anything with linseed oil?

Linseed oil might be good by itself, but if you use it as a primer wouldn't you have to use an oil-based paint? Then you'd have to wait quite a while for those vapors to go away. I have a friend who uses a mixture of linseed oil and beeswax and something else for wooden tool handles -- things like axes, hoes, rakes or whatever.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Acebird

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2018, 02:30:01 pm »
Maybe there is a paint expert that can explain the chemistry but I always thought primer was just a cheap paint, reclaimed, watered down or what ever.  Auto body could be something different but then you are talking oil or lacquer base.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2018, 03:01:45 pm »
A good primer somehow provides a good base for paint.  I usually use Killz as a primer.  It keeps the paint from peeling off chipping as badly.  I think, but can't say for sure, that it's formulation.  The paint department has latex primer and latex paint, or primer or paint that's oil based.  It may be something in the primer that gets into the fiber of the wood better to provide a base for the paint.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2018, 08:22:33 am »
And when you buy paint with a primer additive, what is the additive?  Water?
Brian Cardinal
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Offline ed/La.

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2018, 06:20:02 am »
A primer seals the surface and helps to prevent moisture from absorbing into the surface, especially on a new substrate. The resins contained in primers seal porous surfaces and provide the bond to the surface. This is primer's most basic function, to provide a sealed, bonded, stable surface on which to apply your topcoat. I am a painter but I  cut the above from a Google  Search. Took 1 minute.

Offline Duane

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2018, 07:00:05 pm »
I had always thought, primer shmimer.  I painted a bottom board with two coats of paint, no primer.  Figured that was for people who liked extra work.  In a short time, about a year, it was pealing.  Someone said a primer provides a stickiness between the wood and the primer.  Goes along with what Ed just said.

So that means painting with primer, waiting.  Painting first coat, waiting.  Painting second coat, waiting.  And no access to cheap exterior paint, and hating just the thought of painting.....

I have used, I think it was, Teak oil I saw recommended for bee boxes.  I thought it went on with a rag easier than the paint.  I applied two coats and it looked good the first rain.  But I'm not sure there's a difference from the untreated ones a few years later.

I have been thinking of collecting propolis and mixing it with turpentine to apply.

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2018, 07:22:05 pm »
Teak oil is just that, an oil that seapes into the wood to seal it. After a while, out in the weather, it dies out and needs to be reapplied.
If you want to use propolis, use alcohol to dilute it. Keep in mind that it gets sticky when it is hot.
Jim

Offline Duane

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2018, 07:29:55 pm »
I had never thought of getting the stickiness on me.  Hmmm....  Might not be such a great idea.  Would some solvent combine with the propolis to create a more hard surface?  Or would Teak oil or something else carry the propolis into the wood and after awhile, the outside stickiness would wear off leaving that in the wood that wouldn't dry out?

Offline SouthAussieBeekeeper

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2018, 08:53:28 pm »
It's good to have learned that a primer is important. How many coats of primer and paint should I use? I'm thinking one coat of primer and two coats of paint?

EDIT:

Should I use a waterbased, or oil based primer?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 12:03:11 am by SouthAussieBeekeeper »

Offline Bamboo

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2018, 06:42:20 am »
SAB it depends...what are you using for your top coats? If you are using oil based then use an oil based primer, similarly if you are using water based top coats use water based primer. You know the old story about oil and water not mixing,,, well it's true!!
So one coat of primer and 2 coats top coat and you will have a great finish.
Good luck

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2018, 04:03:30 pm »
If you use oil-based primer and paint, remember to allow a longer time for the vapors to dissipate.  Oil-based may chip a little more where your hive tool  is used to separate boxes.  Water-based (latex) never seems to fully dry.  Either one should last for many years of use.  The latex is a good deal easier to clean up -- brushes, spills, etc.  I generally use a pad made for applying paint, rather than a brush, but it's just a matter of your personal preference. 
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Offline SouthAussieBeekeeper

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2018, 06:30:59 am »
Turns out that the paint that I have a big tin of is acrylic paint... I believe it's water based and from what I've gathered, that means a water based primer would be best for me.

It's been suggested to me to use two coats of primer, the first one to dilute with some water, the idea behind this is it'll allow the primer to soak in deeper into the wood. Do you guys think this is a good, or bad idea?

Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2018, 07:23:31 am »
Sounds about right.
Jim

Offline Acebird

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2018, 08:10:57 am »
It's been suggested to me to use two coats of primer, the first one to dilute with some water, the idea behind this is it'll allow the primer to soak in deeper into the wood.

Adding oil to oil based paint is different then adding water to water based paint.  It could weaken the paint like adding too much water to a concrete mix.  I would not add water to latex.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2018, 02:12:45 pm »
What Brian said, but definitely acrylic is water-based, so you must use water-based primer with it.  Two coats of primer is probably unnecessary.  One good coat should do it, but without the primer, the paint will peel off after a few years. Learned from experience is learned forever.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Acebird

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2018, 11:08:50 am »
One good coat should do it, but without the primer, the paint will peel off after a few years. Learned from experience is learned forever.

I did not use primer and my equipment is stored outside and there are no signs of peeling.  I can't say what would happen in TX.
Brian Cardinal
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Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Undercoat with primer?
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2018, 01:56:19 pm »
Same here Ace. Some of my equipment is 8 years old and it is not peeling. I do apply 2 coats of paint.
Jim