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Author Topic: Oxalic acid vaporizer  (Read 832 times)

Offline Bush_84

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Oxalic acid vaporizer
« on: May 17, 2018, 04:03:26 pm »
This is something I know has been talked about a little on this forum. However I wanted to update a little after using my unit for the first time. This is something I made myself and is comparable to the provap. My vaporizer is working very well.  I?ll avoid going into specifics pertaining to the build and will just leave it with it works just like the provap.  My biggest problem is leaky old hive bodies. I?m to lazy to tape it all up. However when I do treat there is vapor coming out of the top and bottom. So I?m getting great penetration. By fall I will not only make my money back on what I spent to build it but I will start saving above and beyond what I put into it.

I spent a little under $100 for the unit. What I spend on varroa control depends on what I?m using and how many hives I have. Let?s just assume I?m using apivar for spring and fall treatments. This spring I would have spent over $60 to treat what I have right now.  Fall treatment would likely have been well over double and likely closer to triple.

So I?m very happy with this. The only downside is that with brood you have to treat multiple times in order to achieve an effective result. Randy Oliver did some great work pertaining to that. My current plan is to do another treatment when I harvest honey. That way my winter bees can be born in an environment void of significant varroa pressure. I?ll then do a single treatment before I put them away for the winter. Any remaining varroa will be hit as the hive will be broodless. Nowhere to hide for the little buggers!
Keeping bees since 2011.

Also please excuse the typos.  My iPad autocorrect can be brutal.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2018, 04:39:10 pm »
No were for the queen to hide either when you are trying to get the little buggers.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 05:02:02 pm »
Mr. Bush, I am impressed with you talents to build your own equipment.  I?m kinda of electronics illerate so I would rather buy an electronic device than electrocute my bees or worse, like burn up this side of Arkansas.

The use of oxalic acid (OA) to me is a plus, a step forward, compared to a commercial Mitacide as OA is a natural component of honey and many green foods, such as spinach, broccoli etc.  So, good luck with the bees.

Oh, btw, queens have no place to hide from mites either.
Blessings
The photo of me is like 1/2 million years old, I wanted to show off my bull elk kill.

Offline Bush_84

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 07:17:15 pm »
OA has been vaporized for a long time at this point. From what I have read it is very well tolerated by bees. I don?t recall seeing any reports of queen issues with oav.
Keeping bees since 2011.

Also please excuse the typos.  My iPad autocorrect can be brutal.

Offline little john

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2018, 04:36:35 am »
I don?t recall seeing any reports of queen issues with oav.

Unlike MAQS (formic acid).
LJ
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2018, 09:03:57 am »
Oh, btw, queens have no place to hide from mites either.
Blessings
The queen is the most groomed bee in the hive. 
I will go with many many years of treating with OA in Europe yet the mite is still a problem.  You would think if it was the silver bullet the mite would no longer be a problem.  Now maybe the problem isn't the chemical.  Maybe the problem is the beekeeper.  Europe has had 20+ years to come up with a treatment protocol.  But then again who would follow it?  Beekeepers do their own thing, make their own devices, buy substitute chemicals, and use their own dosing.  Not unlike farmers in the fields before the days of GMO.  These chemical solutions will not work in the long run.  They never have.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2018, 09:07:37 am »
I don?t recall seeing any reports of queen issues with oav.
What biological change occurred in such a short time that the average queen last 2-3 years when they use to last 5?
Brian Cardinal
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Offline little john

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2018, 10:38:36 am »
Oh, btw, queens have no place to hide from mites either.
Blessings
The queen is the most groomed bee in the hive. 
I will go with many many years of treating with OA in Europe yet the mite is still a problem.  You would think if it was the silver bullet the mite would no longer be a problem. Now maybe the problem isn't the chemical.  Maybe the problem is the beekeeper.  Europe has had 20+ years to come up with a treatment protocol.  But then again who would follow it?  Beekeepers do their own thing, make their own devices, buy substitute chemicals, and use their own dosing.  Not unlike farmers in the fields before the days of GMO.  These chemical solutions will not work in the long run.  They never have.

You missed your vocation Brian - should have been a politician ...

Oxalic Acid is a potential silver bullet - but only if everyone uses it.  The problem is that so many beekeepers will persist with this idea of not treating for Varroa - so their hives collapse, are then robbed-out - and the mites spread.  Even back to those hives which had been successfully treated.  And so the cycle keeps repeating itself.

What never ceases to puzzle me is that those beekeepers who persist with the aim of being treatment-free with regard to Varroa - never seem to extend that same philosophy to the problem of SHB.  Why not let the bees' work-out that problem for themselves, too ?
LJ
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Offline little john

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2018, 10:43:56 am »
I don?t recall seeing any reports of queen issues with oav.
What biological change occurred in such a short time that the average queen last 2-3 years when they use to last 5?

How about far more prolific colonies than used to exist ?  Which is sod all to do with Oxalic Acid of course, unless a person is flogging some kind of personal agenda.  FWIW - I have some queens entering their fifth year - but then, I'm not a commercial operator with huge colony sizes.
LJ
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Offline Bush_84

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2018, 12:30:31 am »
Ya I?m not sure what oxalic acid has to do with queen longevity. It?s more to do with modern beekeeping practices than oxalic acid imo.
Keeping bees since 2011.

Also please excuse the typos.  My iPad autocorrect can be brutal.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2018, 10:43:16 am »
>Oxalic Acid is a potential silver bullet - but only if everyone uses it.  The problem is that so many beekeepers will persist with this idea of not treating for Varroa - so their hives collapse, are then robbed-out - and the mites spread.  Even back to those hives which had been successfully treated.  And so the cycle keeps repeating itself.

Ridicules.  Only a treatment that was 100% effective used by everyone in the world on the same day would make any difference.  In my climate all the losses are in the winter.  Those hives are not spreading Varroa.  The Varroa die with the bees.  Those treating keep breeding for super mites and wimpy bees.  THAT is the problem.  If everyone quit treating we would be over this in somewhere between a year and three.  In South Africa it took about three.  Treating just drags out the problem.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2018, 05:56:05 pm »
I have never had a colony crash in the flying season either.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2018, 09:17:08 pm »
M.Bush{Ridicules.  Only a treatment that was 100% effective used by everyone in the world on the same day would make any difference.  In my climate all the losses are in the winter.  Those hives are not spreading Varroa.  The Varroa die with the bees.  Those treating keep breeding for super mites and wimpy bees.  THAT is the problem.  If everyone quit treating we would be over this in somewhere between a year and three.  In South Africa it took about three.  Treating just drags out the problem.}

Mr. M. Bush:  if you were discussing bacteria and antibiotics I would agree with you, except for the first word RIDICULES.  Lil John gives expert correct advice that should be appreciated.

M. Bush In fact, I believe you are trying to apply the science of bacteria and antibiotics due to the fact you have accurately discrided so well the science, but you appear to apply this science, bacteria to antibiotics to varroa and OA and this in not applicable.

Varroa and a Oxalic acid (OA) are different as OA has many modes of action and compares to no antibiotic as far as the way OA works.  To many details for me to go into to explain on Beemaster.

One last note: M. Bush, I read a text you wrote describing your Biblical knowledge.  I was very impressed, you have studied the Bible very well, you know the Bible so maybe I call you Brother Bush although we may not agree about varroa,  that is a small thing.
Blessings
The photo of me is like 1/2 million years old, I wanted to show off my bull elk kill.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2018, 12:31:15 am »
One last note: M. Bush, I read a text you wrote describing your Biblical knowledge.  I was very impressed, you have studied the Bible very well, you know the Bible so maybe I call you Brother Bush although we may not agree about varroa,  that is a small thing.
Blessings

Well said Mr Van. I'm Glad Mr Bush is a believer also!!

Offline sc-bee

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2018, 12:35:30 am »
One last note: M. Bush, I read a text you wrote describing your Biblical knowledge.  I was very impressed, you have studied the Bible very well, you know the Bible so maybe I call you Brother Bush although we may not agree about varroa,  that is a small thing.
Blessings

Could you PM me the text or link... I would be interested in the read...Thanks
John 3:16

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2018, 04:42:42 am »
I once read that in India, when varroa first came there, the beekeepers could not afford any of the treatments. Most of their hives were killed but within 3 years they were back up to full production with no treatment.
I have never seen anyone from India on here but if there is someone, could you please verify this.
Jim
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Offline Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2018, 09:52:30 am »
I copied the post by M. Bush, er uh Brother Bush located on
DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
BOOK OF GIANTS

Goliath was not during the wanderings.  It was during the reign of King Saul, long after the trip across the desert.  But there are other references to Giants.  The first:
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."--Genesis 6:4

This is pre-flood and pre-Abraham.

When they were in the wanderings and about to go into Canaan we have this:
"And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight."--Numbers 13:33

There are 9 other references to giants, often talking about whole peoples of giants.    Here's one with measurements:
"For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man."--Deuteronomy 3:11

9 cubits is over 13 feet.  4 cubits is just short of six feet.  Keep in mind this is his bed, not the person...

And of course the classic Goliath with measurements:
"And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span."--1 Samuel 17:4

6 cubits is almost 9 feet.  A span is 9" which makes him about 9' 9".  Robert Pershing Wadlow (22 Feb 198-27 Jun 1940) was 8' 11.1"  Less than an inch away from 9 feet.
The photo of me is like 1/2 million years old, I wanted to show off my bull elk kill.

Offline Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2018, 10:11:35 am »
Jim: India has the species Apis ceranae, which is know for resistance and would explain your text.
The photo of me is like 1/2 million years old, I wanted to show off my bull elk kill.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2018, 10:14:48 am »
In reporting on Apimondia 2013 in the American Bee Journal Volume 153 No. 12, December 2013 on page 129, William Blomstedt quotes Dr. Nicola Bradbear and refers to presentations by Tom Seeley and in the article he says:

"Generally speaking, poorer beekeepers have healthier bees than wealthier beekeepers. This, according to Dr. Nicola Bradbear, president of an Apimondia standing committee, is because the poorer beekeepers do not use chemicals or antibiotics in their hives, and they often allow swarming and drone production.

"Later in the conference, keynote speaker, Dr. Tom Seeley offered some solid research to back up Dr. Bradbear's thoughts."

My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Offline GSF

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Re: Oxalic acid vaporizer
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2018, 01:01:26 pm »
(lol) I'll let yall sort all this out, until the meanwhile I'll keep vaporizing. OA is also found in wood sorrel and sourwood.
When the law no longer protects you from the corrupt, but protects the corrupt from you - then you know your nation is doomed.