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Author Topic: Request for help, Re: Bee Type  (Read 1667 times)

Offline Thetreehouse

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Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« on: March 25, 2018, 09:37:19 am »
Hi All,

Could anyone tell me the species of bee in the pic I've attached to this post. The colony arrived (wild - they just flew in) a few years ago, and have recently been relocated to a more suitable location in my backyard.  I'm located on the Mornington Peninsula in Vic.   Any assistance in identifying what type of bee it is would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your time.

Regards,

Paul.

Offline Thetreehouse

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2018, 07:38:32 pm »
Here's a 2nd pic of the same bee.  Hopefully the resolution is satisfactory for a positive identification.

Offline eltalia

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2018, 07:47:07 pm »
Yer a pro, photographer....right?
Great work an' most interesting. Forage is close by
or there is little to no wind around, note pollen specks
hanging on.

Bill

Offline Thetreehouse

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2018, 07:08:09 am »
Hi Bill,

No, i'm certainly not a pro photographer. Far from it.  i do enjoy trying to take a reasonable photo though. The two photos above could have been better if i wasn't also juggling a few items whilst trying to take the shot, as the steel rule and a couple of other things out. Haha.  Hopefully they'll suffice for a species identification.

Regards,

Paul.

Offline Thetreehouse

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2018, 09:09:29 pm »
Hi Everyone,

I placed a couple of pics of my bees on this forum some weeks ago hoping that someone would be able to identify the type/species of bee I have.  I notice that my post has  been viewed over 120 times, however to date no one has identified them.  Maybe my previous photos didn't helped. I've added a couple new photos below.  Is anyone able to tell me what type of honey bee they are? 

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Regards,

Paul. 

Offline Acebird

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2018, 09:38:32 pm »
I am surprised Bill has not identified the bees he is quite knowledgeable about these things.  They definitely look dark to me.  Are they defensive?
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Thetreehouse

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2018, 10:12:07 pm »
Hi Brian,

Thanks for your reply.  No, my bees are generally not defensive.  They were initially a little bit defensive, when i removed the Parrot Box they were living in from a tree I had to cut down.  They've settled into their new location now, and appear to be very gentle.

Regards,

Paul.

Offline Anybrew2

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2018, 11:27:26 pm »
Hi there I have a mixture of golden yellow Italian Bee's I think and dark looking Muts like yours.
Are they all that colour as I have noticed as even the yellow ones age they get darker and darker.

Offline eltalia

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2018, 12:04:08 am »
I am surprised Bill has not identified the bees he is quite knowledgeable about these things.  They definitely look dark to me.  Are they defensive?

Nope.. not I Brian.
"Once bitten twice shy" applies here.
Not so long back I offered an ID on an Aussie Apis, and provided
the reference matertial. I truly cannot recall if it was scorn or
laughter which rose on that occasion - it being so important to
me, not - but I did think "why bother".

So no, whilst I do recognise the bee I'll keep me gob stum.
Way more learned Ento(s) out there than I.

Bill

Offline Anybrew2

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2018, 12:27:48 am »
Haha Does it start with a C Bill.

Offline eltalia

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2018, 01:08:24 am »
Haha Does it start with a C Bill.

That dark you'd reckon so,, eh?
But no.. check the bands, and the size.. Paul did that nicely!
No, I reckon your first go is close buuut given it is Mornington P.
and passed by the Tassie ferry every other day it could well be
a mutation of ye olde English Black... dunno, what do you reckon
now with that feedback?

(edit)
oH... Cerana? Apis.cerana.j ??? I bl00dy hope not!
Too far South I'd reckon, and again too big (long);
http://beeaware.org.au/archive-pest/asian-honey-bee/#ad-image-0


Bill
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 01:35:07 am by eltalia »

Offline Thetreehouse

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2018, 11:22:09 am »
Hi All,

Once again, thanks for your input.  Much appreciated.

'Brian' I can confirm once again that my bees certainly appear to be very gentle. I sat with them this afternoon (taking more pics - see attached), and there wasn't the slightest amount of aggression forth coming. Far from it in fact. Just bees foraging, and lots of it. Does that indicate anything to you?   

'Anybrew2': To answer your question, yes they all do seem to be the same colour.  I took a few more pics this afternoon (see additional pics), and i must admit that i think you may be right (ie Golden Italian).  Although mine don't appear to be overly 'Golden'.  Bill 'almost' seems to agree, however he throws a very interesting and credible 'curve ball' with his 'European Dark Bee' mutation slide. Don't ya think???    Does anyone have any further opinion on this?  if so, I'd be very interest to hear your thoughts.  Brian/Anybrew 2, what do you guys think? 

I've added 3 more pics (taken today).  I'm hoping they'll help with the identification of my bees.

Regards,

Paul. 

Offline Acebird

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2018, 02:00:48 pm »
Paul I am not that good at identifying bees.  I have some that look like that and then mixed in are some with more yellow or orange color.  I call my breed Italian Mutts only because my first successful hive was an Italian queen.
How big is this colony?  There should be way more bees on the landing board unless it is early morning and cool.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline eltalia

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2018, 07:12:15 pm »
Paul I am not that good at identifying bees.  I have some that look like that and then mixed in are some with more yellow or orange color.  I call my breed Italian Mutts only because my first successful hive was an Italian queen.
How big is this colony?  There should be way more bees on the landing board unless it is early morning and cool.
Given the story around;
http://Https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=51045.msg449910#msg449910

I wouldn't be expecting too much action at this time with the colony
restructuring. Same reason Paul is now reporting they are quiet after
initial encounters with stings, makes sense.
Come runup to Spring with removal of comb in the PB I would expect
spotting the queen to give more of an indication as to subspecies.
Also as colony builds in strength in new larger home their attitude may
change again.
Those shown here now are certainly very dark and not so hairy for
Italian "Mutts" so commonly seen all over Aussie.
Time will tell ;-)))

Bill

Offline Thetreehouse

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2018, 03:01:59 am »
Hi Everyone,

Thanks once again for your input.  Much appreciated.

I've added a couple more pictures taken today whilst the sun was shining on the Bees.  The time that the photo was taken was 2pm, and the temp was 25C.  I found it very interesting. Whilst in the sun, the bees were much lighter/golden in colour than i've ever seen them before.  Usually they appear very dark, as seen in all of my previously attached photos.  Not today though. 

Does anyone have any further thoughts on what type of bee these are, now that you've seen these latest 2 photos showing a much lighter coloured bee.   

Paul.

PS: To answer your question Brian regarding the size of my colony, I'm actually not sure because it is currently hidden inside a Parrot Nesting Box. I'm hoping that they will naturally move down and into a Langstroth Hive in Spring, which is positioned directly below the Parrot Box at the moment. Time will tell though.    I wouldn't think that mine is a very big colony though at this stage, compared to a fully stocked 8 or 10 framed hive.   


Offline Acebird

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2018, 09:32:06 am »
Oh the Parrot Nesting box hive.  Sorry for my brain fade.  They look like Italian mutts to me.  I hope they make it.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2018, 02:33:01 pm »
They also look like Italians to me.
I have tried to get bees to move into a Langstroth hive from a log. It did not work. The difference was that I put the Langstroth on top. It also was possible that the queen was killed when the tree was felled. I found a lot of damaged wax comb when I took it apart.
Jim

Offline Acebird

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2018, 05:46:30 pm »
It would have been a time when the queen was not laying otherwise they would have made another.  Possibly out of mating season.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Anybrew2

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2018, 05:56:27 pm »
Italian Muts, if they smell like garlic,enjoy a glass of red and don't mind an afternoon nap oops that's me I must be a Mut too.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2018, 09:15:17 pm »
Well if you are going to be a beekeep you might as well acquire a taste for white.  You can still eat the garlic. :grin:
Brian Cardinal
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2018, 09:43:19 pm »
It would have been a time when the queen was not laying otherwise they would have made another.  Possibly out of mating season.
The reason I did not do a cut out right away it was mid November and they did not have much of a chance that winter.
Jim

Offline Acebird

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2018, 08:58:55 am »
Unfortunately people like to cut trees down in the fall.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline eltalia

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2018, 06:49:29 pm »
They also look like Italians to me.
I have tried to get bees to move into a Langstroth hive from a log. It did not work.
The difference was that I put the Langstroth on top. It also was possible that the
queen was killed when the tree was felled. I found a lot of damaged wax comb
when I took it apart.
Jim
At best recall I am fairly sure it was LJ who shone light
on this 'problem' for me. I now sit the open bottom Skep
on the Lang structured colony to get the Skep started.
Still slower than actual frame transfer but as Lang frames
into Skep do not go, it works.

Bill

Offline eltalia

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2018, 06:50:35 pm »
Italian Muts, if they smell like garlic,enjoy a glass of red and don't mind an afternoon
nap oops that's me I must be a Mut too.

... and partial to cleaning up Calamari Olive pips
 on a lazy day :chuckles:

Bill

Offline omnimirage

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Re: Request for help, Re: Bee Type
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2018, 08:45:56 am »
It's not reliable to determine the race of a bee by looking at it. It's easier to tell the race by looking at the queen rather than the workers, though of course she doesn't reflect her mated drones background. There's visual cues that you can read about that'll give you an indication as to what species they may be, keep in mind though that purebreeds is not a common thing.