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Author Topic: Gun Control  (Read 6530 times)

Offline bwallace23350

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Gun Control
« on: February 17, 2018, 09:30:26 am »
Kinda shocked no one has brought this up yet in the coffee house but once again we have mass killing in the US and we are all rightfully shocked but nothing ever gets done and the cycle repeates itself. We can have guns and greater background checks all at the same time.

Online iddee

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2018, 10:27:12 am »
Or we can have more shootings by identifying the places that won't shoot back, ""gun free zones"" so the shooter can feel safer and shoot more before he is stopped.

We aren't smart enough to have people with guns waiting on the shooters.

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« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 10:43:47 am by iddee »
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2018, 11:14:34 am »
Or we can have more shootings by identifying the places that won't shoot back, ""gun free zones"" so the shooter can feel safer and shoot more before he is stopped.

We aren't smart enough to have people with guns waiting on the shooters.

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Yeah gun free zones are a stupid idea. It lets people know it is a soft target

Offline Acebird

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2018, 02:24:36 pm »
Some schools already have armed police officers on guard.  It isn't that the mentally deranged person is not going to meet up with an armed individual it is that the individual is given a chance to lay down their weapon after they have killed a number of people.  The armed police were present within 6 minutes.  The shooter killed 17+ people in less than 3 minutes.  The other 3 minutes was time spent moving between floors and class rooms.
You can have an army of armed guards at every school, church, library, shopping maul, theater, places of entertainment, meeting hauls, hotels, airports, etc. but even with this kind of protection in three minutes 20 people could be dead.  The cost of such a military state would bankrupt taxpayers.
You could also ask why these mentally deranged people have this kind of fire power?  The answer to this question eliminates all these deaths.  The largest and most powerful private organization in this country is responsible for all these deaths.  The turd isn't helping.
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Offline herbhome

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2018, 04:28:38 pm »
I'm chiming just to say how dismayed I am at this event. Those were someone's babies dieing in there. I have no idea how to effectively stop this kind of madness. Looks like our schools are going to end up looking like military installations if this doesn't stop.
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Online gww

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2018, 05:46:21 pm »
I may not want to go on if this happened to my kids.  I may have a much different view if it happened to me personally.  From a distance though, Some kids kill their parents, hard to understand.  They say there are 5000 serial killers at any one time in america.  All these things are so bad, expesially if you are the one who has to live through it.  I remember after colombine that there was a big push to out law violent vidio games but saw on the news today that a guy started a buisness tutoring vidio players and that a contest is going on with a one million dollar prize and it adds several billion to the economy.  That says a whole bunch of poeple are not being influinced to go out and kill people due to vidio games.

I am glad common sence prevailed and we don't ruin poeples lives by over reacting to those whos lives were ruined by an aberration.

If it was my kid, I would not care who was hurt if it would have stopped my kid from being hurt.  However, it is still wrong to punish somebody who is causeing no harm just cause one person did cause harm.

I have no ideal what the answer is or what is a fair line that should be drawn.  I am not sure it is possible to stop somebody so set on distruction.  If there was a pure way to stop him everyone would but we also don't want to hurt those who do not deserve it even if they are differrent them I am and I can not relate.  I am sure my dad could not relate to my long hair and rock and roll compared to his flat top.  The point is that it is hard to pre-empt with out causing damage and hard to live with damage if we don't pre-empt to stop it.  There is no good answer.  Not fair to the innocent that got hurt but the one thing we can do is punnish the bad guy.

I don't think it would be fair to make schools unlivable for the students in the name of saftey even though this one case may (though I doubt it from someone wanting evil as bad as the shooter wanted it) parrents here would wish it were so after the fact.

Life is full of risk and so to keep trying to thread the line is what is going to have to happen.

I can not immagine the pain of those involved and am selfish enough that I don't want to lose things I have because it happenned. 

I still think the guy in texas that shot the church was bad, picked his time but also think the guy that interrupted him was a hero.  Two guns with differrent uses and like all things, free will allows for good and bad.  Bad is bad.
Cheers
gww

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2018, 06:09:38 pm »
 The FBI has admitted it made a mistake by not investigating a credible report from someone who knew this kid that he was a manace.  It has not admitted fault for not checking out Nikolas Cruz's online post that he wanted to be a "professional school shooter".   I fail to see why it doesn't acknowledge  a failure of its responsibility in both instances.

Didn't the FBI also have reason to check out another shooter recently?

Why was Cruz free to walk onto this high school campus?  Shouldn't there be some control over who enters a school building?  They do have locks on doors there, don't they?  And Cruz was carrying a duffle and backpack.  That would make me curious.

Cruz went on a shooting spree, then mingled with students fleeing the scene, walked to a Walmart, then to a Subway, where he bought a drink, then to a McD, where he sat around for a while.  Very calm and cold.  Like a professional school shooter.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2018, 06:29:16 pm »
Or we can have more shootings by identifying the places that won't shoot back, ""gun free zones"" so the shooter can feel safer and shoot more before he is stopped.

We aren't smart enough to have people with guns waiting on the shooters.

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iddee
When will you learn, they are just collateral damage to the NRA! What a sad state of affairs, young lives and not so young, wasted! :sad:
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Online gww

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2018, 06:31:07 pm »
Dallas
Quote
Cruz was carrying a duffle and backpack.  That would make me curious.
I am not sure about this.  I think some of this made him look more like he belonged.  When I was a kid, I never carried anything back and forth to school.  Of course I didn't do my homework either.  When my kids where in school, they had home work that last till bed time.  They carried back packs and bags that I even had a hard time lifting every day.  there were even studies this was causing physical problims for some kids.  I don't remember it being like that when I was a kid but maybe it was and I was too dumb to pay attention.  My kids did well in school but did bring it home with them every day.  I think now days they all have back packs though I did hear on the news that the shooter was told not to by the school.  I also heard that it made him fit in on the news.
Cheers
gww

Offline kathyp

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2018, 06:52:32 pm »
Quote
The largest and most powerful private organization in this country is responsible for all these deaths.  The turd isn't helping.

Neither the largest nor the most powerful assuming you are talking about the NRA, which, BTW gets most of its money from we the people.  No, Obama didn't help.  He lost quite a few weapons as I recall and they are being found in various murders.

I put this elsewhere and since I don't have a lot of time right now I'll cut and paste.  Deal with the tool or deal with the problem.


We have a problem in this country with mental illness. The school shootings are only a symptom. Homelessness and its attendant crime, suicides, murders of family members, Mothers killing children, fathers killing mothers. Hardly a day goes by that we don't see these stories, yet mental illness is the one thing no one seems willing to deal with.

Fixing what we have allowed to go on for so long is going to be hard and it's not going to be pretty. We are going to have to go back to locking people up involuntarily. Their civil rights can't be more important than the rights of the people they kill and damage.

You want a federal solution? I propose a federal mandate that each state have a secure facility and be responsible for anyone they allow out after treatment. No more 72 hour catch and release.

You think it will be expensive? It will be, but think about the cost we pay now in lives and dollars.



Additionally, I think the 24/7 several days in a row coverage of things like this is like feeding an addict their favorite drug.  The next one is watching and thinking about how he can do it bigger and better and get more press.  There was a kid in WA stopped the day before this shooting because his grandmother read his journal and called the police.  He said he'd been studying past shootings so he could avoid the mistakes made by others. He was not only going to shoot, but was making bombs.  Where did he get his info on past shootings?  From the volumes written and shown in the press.   
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
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Online iddee

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2018, 06:55:29 pm »
""When will you learn, they are just collateral damage to the DNC! What a sad state of affairs, young lives and not so young, wasted!""

Hey, cider, I corrected your typo.

""You could also ask why these mentally deranged people have this kind of fire power?The answer to this question eliminates all these deaths. ""  Yes, or even on the street, period. Again, DNC. As long as they are on the street voting for Dems, they can always buy any legal, or illegal, item they want.

""The largest and most powerful private organization in this country is responsible for all these deaths.""  The DNC one more time.

Would the coach and several others still be alive if the coach had been carrying concealed??

No one knows, but there is a good chance of it. Much better than the chance he had.

 
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2018, 04:49:58 am »
""When will you learn, they are just collateral damage to the DNC! What a sad state of affairs, young lives and not so young, wasted!""

Hey, cider, I corrected your typo.

""You could also ask why these mentally deranged people have this kind of fire power?The answer to this question eliminates all these deaths. ""  Yes, or even on the street, period. Again, DNC. As long as they are on the street voting for Dems, they can always buy any legal, or illegal, item they want.

""The largest and most powerful private organization in this country is responsible for all these deaths.""  The DNC one more time.

Would the coach and several others still be alive if the coach had been carrying concealed??

No one knows, but there is a good chance of it. Much better than the chance he had.

iddee
An Ostrich comes to mind re the NRA, if the coach should have been enabled to CC why not every one else? Keeps your friends in the NRA and arms manufacturing happy!
 Isn't the problem with the NRA that its the tail wagging the dog. Young girl just on the news 0800 GMT saying of Trump (after he tried to pass the buck to the FBI) she would like to ask him to his face "How much money he got from the NRA" (Lots of "typos" for you to take out of context iddee) but I suppose more than one can play that game!)
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Online iddee

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2018, 07:18:38 am »
"""How much money he got from the NRA""

My guess would be less than 1% of 1% of what he received.

I noticed you only attacked my intelligence, rather than commenting on the outcome if the coach had been armed. As for everyone being armed, NO. Only thosewho have been trained and desire to, as it is on the street now amongst the law abiding. I suppose you think only the law breakers being armed is the answer. Think about that awhile and you will see the true ostrich.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 09:22:12 am »
"""How much money he got from the NRA""

My guess would be less than 1% of 1% of what he received.

I noticed you only attacked my intelligence, rather than commenting on the outcome if the coach had been armed. As for everyone being armed, NO. Only thosewho have been trained and desire to, as it is on the street now amongst the law abiding. I suppose you think only the law breakers being armed is the answer. Think about that awhile and you will see the true ostrich.
Why should I wish to attack your 'intelligence'? Without wishing to paraphrase her, I think she was referring to Trump and the Republican Party. I didn't say only the criminals should be armed, I said everyone albeit rather tongue in cheek. Surely if the criminals knew they would likely to be shot (and not only by your friendly gun club member) if they attempted to shoot someone it would be somewhat of a deterrent. :smile:

Just had a look at NC's gun permit regs.......

'North Carolina gun laws are considered permissive with a ?Shall Issue? policy. There are no restrictions on calibers or magazine size and limited restrictions on open carry. Concealed carry permits are only issued to residents who must be 21 or older and have completed a firearms training course. Exceptions are made for military personnel who are posted in the state. A permit to purchase a firearm is required if you do not have a concealed carry permit. Applications are processed at the county level by the local sheriff?s office.'

So I go to the local sheriffs office and get a gun permit (they have a 'shall issue' policy) buy a 9mm Glock with umpteen round magazine/s , go to a gun club, complete a gun safety course and then get a carry concealed permit! I can now ride the local bus and feel smug that I've got a gun in my pocket and the next passenger  probably  haven't :cool:.....I cannot understand why you would wish to or that you have created a society you feel you need to. :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 09:48:56 am by cidersabuzzin »
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Online iddee

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2018, 09:50:49 am »
Thank You. I, too, feel a shooter knowing school #! had armed staff, and school #2 was a gun free zone, he would choose #2 every time.
Why is it so hard for so many to see that?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2018, 11:39:43 am »
Thank You. I, too, feel a shooter knowing school #! had armed staff, and school #2 was a gun free zone, he would choose #2 every time.
Why is it so hard for so many to see that?
iddee
You agreeing with me? on 'yer bike! I think the above is "correcting typo's" in the extreme! I said everyone should be armed then the criminals would be deterred. Possibly some right wing extremists too. The don't look funny at me I've got a concealed gun type. :smile:

Will have to stop this iddee and cider show, not good for the indigestion. :grin: .............but when you think of the original thread surely the time has come for a real change?   
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Online iddee

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2018, 11:44:47 am »
Once again, I wish I knew what you were saying. Maybe my intelligence isn't so great after all.    :embarassed:
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Online iddee

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2018, 12:05:48 pm »
""Would the coach and several others still be alive if the coach had been carrying concealed??



I quess this is your answer.


https://100percentfedup.com/heroic-rotc-student-football-coach-stopped-shooter-one-thing-video/

""Heroic ROTC students used kevlar mats to shield their fellow students but say that the football coach could have stopped the shooter if he?d been armed.""
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline jvalentour

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2018, 02:33:30 pm »
The turd is not helping.....

Please give me a break.

During the first Obama admin he had a super majority in the Senate and a majority in the house.
They did nothing.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2018, 07:58:21 pm »
They did nothing.

Why is the turd scrambling to undo what he did?
Brian Cardinal
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