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Author Topic: Carrying in church  (Read 3043 times)

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2017, 12:31:48 pm »


Also up to now none of the attacks have been committed by someone with an automatic weapon.

To those misinformed individuals with little or no understanding of firearm terminology, an auto-loading or self-loading semi-automatic firearm is an "automatic weapon".  It just reveals how little they know about the subject and, therefore, how much (little) their opinion counts.  Dismiss them or educate them.  Better still, take them to the range, instruct them and let them gain first-hand experience with a firearm.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2017, 02:08:32 pm »
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Offline Jim 134

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2017, 06:02:34 pm »
Are you trying to say that there are no guns in gun free zones.  Most schools have armed security.  The means when they see someone with a gun they already know who the bad guy is.

Wrong.  Most schools do not have ANY security, armed or unarmed.  Thirty + years teaching in 3 different states and only a handful of schools had SRO.
  Is far as I know every Public school district in Massachusetts .
Has at leased one Police officer with cruiser ..On duty When students are present .I believe the actual title Is "Safety Officer"

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« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 06:47:42 pm by Jim 134 »
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2017, 06:17:46 pm »
School district is very different from one school.  The Dallas Independent School District probably has hundreds of individual schools -- elementary, junior high and high schools.  There aren't rnough police officers in the city to cover all those schools and still have police out doing their job on the streets.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2017, 06:22:31 pm »
Plus, I think the DISD has its own police force, but they don't have that many cops, either. 

And then you've got the independent school district for each little town, where they only have a police force of a couple of officers and there are a half dozen schools.

Do the math.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2017, 06:24:16 pm »
When trouble is imminent, help is only minutes away.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Jim 134

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2017, 06:51:35 pm »
Did not answer  my Question .

If it is that important to you just pay for the police report.  It is not that important to me to give you proof.

IMO
  You sound like another spin doctor without any facts ..

         BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2017, 09:04:50 pm »
Jim, I don't know what you are referring to with the term "spin doctor" but if you want the facts go find them.  Each group has their own set of facts.  You will certainly not believe mine.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2017, 10:18:29 am »
>Most likely if you pull your pop gun out against a heavily armed nut case with an automatic weapon you will end up being a martyr.

You will end up being a martyr if you don't.  He may end up a martyr if you do.
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Offline Jim 134

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2017, 10:08:31 am »
>Most likely if you pull your pop gun out against a heavily armed nut case with an automatic weapon you will end up being a martyr.

You will end up being a martyr if you don't.  He may end up a martyr if you do.

 That's for sure ...


        BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2017, 10:26:36 am »
>Most likely if you pull your pop gun out against a heavily armed nut case with an automatic weapon you will end up being a martyr.

I have never heard of a "nut case with an automatic weapon".  That simply does not happen.  The licencing for automatic weapons is strict enough that criminals never bother.  You would need an FBI background check and a $200 tax stamp to get automatic weapons in addition to the high price tag for the weapon itself.  Besides, I don't care anyway.  An automatic isn't more deadly than a well aimed single shot, bolt, lever, revolver or semi-auto.  It only takes one well aimed shot to take out the bad guy and it's only a question of getting off that shot while he's preoccupied with all the other people in the room.  I would take that shot even if he was currently aiming at me and I'd take him on even if I didn't have a gun, I'd use my knife, and if I didn't have the knife (I only don't have one when I fly)  I'd rush him anyway.  What do you have to lose?  I'm not going to wait around for him to shoot me or anyone else.  There is a big difference between a "shooter" and someone who does not really want to kill anyone and also does not want to die.  That person that doesn't want to kill anyone and doesn't want to die, you can talk to and maybe not doing something is the right thing.  But the "shooter" is intent on killing a lot of people and then himself.  It's a no brainer to defend yourself and others.

>When trouble is imminent, help is only minutes away.

I've called the police... I would say it's only hours away...
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Offline Groundhawg

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2017, 11:53:41 am »
Are you trying to say that there are no guns in gun free zones.  Most schools have armed security.  The means when they see someone with a gun they already know who the bad guy is.

Wrong.  Most schools do not have ANY security, armed or unarmed.  Thirty + years teaching in 3 different states and only a handful of schools had SRO.
  Is far as I know every Public school district in Massachusetts .
Has at leased one Police officer with cruiser ..On duty When students are present .I believe the actual title Is "Safety Officer"

             BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:

Is every school district or every school have an officer?  Have worked in FL, GA, and Alabama and each county had at most three officers which moved from school to school and only in the JR and high school(s).  Just not enough officers for every school.  Wish they did, not don't.
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Online kathyp

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2017, 12:06:14 pm »
Quote
Weapon of choice...  Appears to be deadly enough.

They count a "mass shooting" as anything over 3 people.  They either have to change how they count them, or this is inaccurate.  If you use their definition of mass shooting, most shootings are done with handguns and the majority of those are gang related with family disputes coming behind that. 
Quote
Most likely if you pull your pop gun out against a heavily armed nut case with an automatic weapon you will end up being a martyr.

When is the last time anyone committed a mass shooting with an automatic weapon?
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2017, 01:05:08 pm »
Quote
Weapon of choice...  Appears to be deadly enough.



When is the last time anyone committed a mass shooting with an automatic weapon?

In the United States?  Other than at the Branch Davidian compound?  Oh, you mean by a civilian, right?  My guess is never, or at least none since Prohibition days, which predate the NFA.
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Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2017, 03:53:32 pm »
When trouble is imminent, help is only minutes away.
More like 25 minutes where I live. I have had to call for emergency medical to save a 4 year old and that is what it took and the police arrived after the fire truck.
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Online kathyp

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2017, 07:41:49 pm »
Quote
More like 25 minutes where I live. I have had to call for emergency medical to save a 4 year old and that is what it took and the police arrived after the fire truck.

They are called responders for a reason.  The thing has already happened and they are responding to it. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Jim 134

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2017, 12:36:35 pm »
Quote
Weapon of choice...  Appears to be deadly enough.



When is the last time anyone committed a mass shooting with an automatic weapon?

In the United States?  Other than at the Branch Davidian compound?  Oh, you mean by a civilian, right?  My guess is never, or at least none since Prohibition days, which predate the NFA.
Did both sides have automatic weapons ?  If I have a correctly that was more like a church against the government ...Or maybe it was the other way .A government against  church ..I do believe the government Showed  up with armored vehicles ..


       BEE HAPPY Jim 134   :smile:
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2017, 01:12:47 pm »

Did both sides have automatic weapons ?  If I have a correctly that was more like a church against the government ...Or maybe it was the other way .A government against  church ..I do believe the government Showed  up with armored vehicles ..


       BEE HAPPY Jim 134   :smile:
[/quote]

I don't think the Branch Davidians had automatic weapons.  The military showed up with not just armored vehicles but battle tanks and, after a prolonged standoff, blew the place apart, killing everybody in it, including women and children.  It was the modern equivalent of Wounded Knee and other "battles" against Native Americans.   
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2017, 01:21:30 pm »
>Did both sides have automatic weapons ?

I think that was his point.  Only the government did and they were the ones doing the "mass shooting".

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Offline Jim 134

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Re: Carrying in church
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2017, 01:14:41 am »
       There was a disgruntled member .At this church who made all kind accusations to the authorities ..The authorities had no proof except for hearsay from this person ..No one  at the branch Davidian did not have Any automatic weapons .I do believe there was a cover up By the government .They did Use Tanks  Against the branch  davidians . Which The government was not supposed to be used against the public at that time ..

It comes down to who are policing the police   :(
     

                 BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:






                     
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/