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Author Topic: treated or untreated  (Read 682 times)

Offline paus

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treated or untreated
« on: November 14, 2017, 05:29:42 pm »
I made one DSBB using treated lumber.  Second thoughts began to bother me so I consulted Mr. Knowitall.  Information was available ranging from: ok to build everything from treated wood, use only if the bees don't touch it, to don't place hives close to treated fence post.  Well maybe a little stretch here, but what info is there to document any of the above viewpoints?  Time to start building, just built a couple of above hive feeders, untreated, as I am leery of bee food touching treated wood since I add enough ascorbic acid and white apple vinegar to get neutral to slightly acidic feed.

Offline jvalentour

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 06:39:29 pm »
Mann Lake is selling treated bottom boards. 
Must be quite a few people buying them.

They took arsenic out of the wood and are using copper as I understand.
I don't have a problem with it as I build tops and bottoms out of it.

Offline Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 09:21:00 pm »
Yes, Jvalentour you are 100% correct about "no more arsenic in treated wood."

There is quiet the story behind that decision to abandon arsenic, involving murder charges, ER visits, abandon house:  A readers digest version follows,,, so no worries about arsenic in hives;

      A young couple in Washington builds a house.  The couple wanted ALL the wood to be treated.  During construction the lady gets violently sick with sudden acute abdominal pain, head aches, joint aches.  The husband rushed his wife to ER with symptoms of heavy metal poisoning.  In ER the doc tested the wife for arsenic and of course POSITIVE.  Police were dispatched and the poor husband was arrested and charged with premeditated murder.  Imagine his shock.  However the husband became sick, was tested and he had more arsenic in his blood than his wife.  Charges were dropped.  It was determined the couple was inhaling arsenic from sawing the treated wood.  They had to adbandon the new dream home.

Ya see, someone in the wood treating business in Washington state decided they could make super duper treated wood if they just added arsenic.  So arsenic was approved, not one questions asked.
Blessings

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 06:54:54 am »
Paus,
Your bees will bee constantly cleaning the inside of the hive. If it is old treated wood, I would not use it. Not sure what is in the new wood becides copper but it is deadly enough to kill mold and wood eating insects. I do not use it unless the bees cannot get to it.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline Acebird

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 08:37:07 am »
What advantage does it give you?  I see none.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline paus

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 10:13:42 am »
Well you all have the same view as I have no treated wood in hive but I think I'll keep using it on the bottom of my DSBB.  The way I build my stands there is very little area that can collect and hold water so staying wet should not be a problem to the bottoms.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 10:20:21 am »
>Mann Lake is selling treated bottom boards. 

Mann lake is not using pressure treated lumber for those, they are painting regular lumber with copper napthenate.  I remember a dinner with several of the bee scientists and they were discussing what a horrible idea it was to make anything IN a hive out of pressure treated lumber and how people who had hives of pressure treated lumber would have bees that would never thrive and the beekeepers could not figure out why...

Study on various lumber treatments on bees:
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1984/kalni84a.pdf
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 06:55:39 am »
Good info Michael,
Always heard and thought it was a bad idea but never had anything to back it up.
Thanks,
Jim
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Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2017, 04:56:53 pm »
if you want to preserve your wooden hives why not wax dip them?
The BK's here use paraffin and micocrystaline wax or one uses paraffin and linseed oil.
Dip them for 6-10 minutes at 150C. Cooks the moisture out of the wood and once removed from the cooker as the air in the wood cools it draws the wax into the wood.
Give them a few minutes for the wax to absorb and then while hot apply quick dry paving paint, it will dry in a few minutes due to the heat, and apply second coat. Box painted while the next one is cooking.
Preserved and painted in one go, 15 min each box, best system I have found.

Offline Acebird

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2017, 05:33:37 pm »
Process is a little dangerous and requires some equipment.  Doesn't make sense for a few hives.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2017, 07:49:57 pm »
And the cost is prohibitive for a few hives. Not only for the equipment but also for the amount of wax needed.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline Acebird

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2017, 09:23:54 pm »
I suppose if you were making your own boxes you could cut the board to length and cook them in a cookie sheet one side at a time for a few hives.  Or just do the outside, the bees do the inside anyway.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2017, 06:37:10 am »
I would not want to try boiling wax in a cookie sheet. Too shallow, it will probably flash into a big flame of fire.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline Acebird

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2017, 08:47:47 am »
Yeah, your right.  Maybe a stainless serving pan that you could get from a restaurant supply house.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline paus

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2017, 11:40:07 am »
I haven't tried this with bees wax.  I use store paraffin dissolved in mineral spitits and rub it on table saw and other shop tools to prevent ,rust.  Why not paint the hives with paraffin and bees wax with mineral spiritsl?  While not as effective as hot dip, it would bee a lot faster and more economical.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 11:57:38 am by paus »

Offline Steves Bees

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2017, 08:53:17 am »
I made one DSBB using treated lumber.  Second thoughts began to bother me so I consulted Mr. Knowitall.  Information was available ranging from: ok to build everything from treated wood, use only if the bees don't touch it, to don't place hives close to treated fence post.  Well maybe a little stretch here, but what info is there to document any of the above viewpoints?  Time to start building, just built a couple of above hive feeders, untreated, as I am leery of bee food touching treated wood since I add enough ascorbic acid and white apple vinegar to get neutral to slightly acidic feed.

If treated wood is dangerous to bees, I wish someone would have told that to the Carpenter Bees that drill into the 4x4's holding up my decks! :cool:

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: treated or untreated
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2017, 05:13:30 pm »
I made one DSBB using treated lumber.  Second thoughts began to bother me so I consulted Mr. Knowitall.  Information was available ranging from: ok to build everything from treated wood, use only if the bees don't touch it, to don't place hives close to treated fence post.  Well maybe a little stretch here, but what info is there to document any of the above viewpoints?  Time to start building, just built a couple of above hive feeders, untreated, as I am leery of bee food touching treated wood since I add enough ascorbic acid and white apple vinegar to get neutral to slightly acidic feed.

If treated wood is dangerous to bees, I wish someone would have told that to the Carpenter Bees that drill into the 4x4's holding up my decks! :cool:
Carpenter bees do not eat the wood. They also do not clean it like our bees do.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain