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Offline Acebird

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2017, 09:53:31 pm »
And I had to use a mallet or something to get the caes out of the cylinder after firing his pistol.  Makes no sense to me.
It is about testosterone.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2017, 09:57:19 pm »
gww I could take deer with a billy club in my back yard.  Deer are plentiful and they are so complacent around the city.
Tomorrow I am going to pick up our pig from the butcher that just got arrested for selling deer meat.  You can butcher deer in this state for a price but you can't sell it.  We feed deer meat to the dogs.  It is organic!  Lots of people want to kill it but few want to eat it.  No doubt you could feed the homeless in the big apple with deer meat.

My neighbor competes in barbecue cookoffs and barbecues meat for charity things. Here in Texas, we have a problem with feral pigs, as I'm sure is true across the south.  Now that it's cooling off, I intend to start shooting feral pigs and giving them to my neighbor to barbecue.  They can't be sold, because they were not examined by a vet prior to slaughter, but they can be given away or consumed by us and our neighbors. 
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Online gww

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #62 on: November 13, 2017, 11:03:18 pm »
Ace
I think deer might be my favorite meat.  We make no sausage sticks or hamberger but mostly slice it thin, salt, pepper, flower and fry.  The dog does get some too.

Dallas
I agree with you.  The s&w 29 is a good light gun with a better trigger pull them my ruger red hawk but the ruger is built like a tank and would take the heavy loads if that happened to be your passion.
Cheers
gww

Offline Acebird

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2017, 08:17:21 am »
They can't be sold, because they were not examined by a vet prior to slaughter, but they can be given away or consumed by us and our neighbors.

I am heading to the butcher this morning to pick up our pig.  He is known as the deer man ... he got caught with 3200 pounds of deer meat in his freezer.  I hope he doesn't lose the business.
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Online gww

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2017, 09:32:54 am »
Dallas
We don't have pig that I have seen in MO yet but it is against the law to let them go and the state wants an effort to kill any that are found so the don't get started.  We do have your armandillo now.  They are pretty thick now since about the last ten years.

I have only tasted wild pig one time in my life and that time it tasted kind of goatie to me.

Ace, your butcher sounds like he sells a lot of deer meat.  We have a prossessor that sells deer and elk nation wide but I believe they are being raised like cattle and not wild.

When younger we had a couple of cows and pigs processed by it but I never knew till recentlly that they had a catalog and sold nation wide even though they been their my whole life.  They are located in a little one horse town called swiss and I think that is thier name also.  Swiss processing or something like that.

As far as guns go, I used to have a 45 llama 1911 style pistol that I liked best for shape and size but I gave it to my little brother one christmas cause he liked it too.

  I am an idiot with all my old stuff.  I got Chickens and so I took my only shotgun and kept it in my garage cause everything will kill a chicken.  It now has rust on the barrel from the heat and cold and humidity.  That is not counting all the dust due to building hives and things.  It was a nice gun before that bone head move.  I have a 30-30 that I fell off the bottom steps of a tree stand and broke the plastic but plate and cracked the stock on.  I have looked and found it hard to fine the correct but plate.  I dropped my 30-06 out of a 20 foot tree and it broke the little plastic dust cover over the reciever.  You can get them but have to take the gun compleetly apart to install it.  I have the skill but not the will power and so I store it with a piece of duct tape over the ejection port except when I am using it.  It still works perfect and the fall did not even move the scope as I killed deer with it after the drop.  Rather then fixing it I just started using the 308 which I am really likeing.

I am very selfish and don't like the bad things that poeple do with guns but also don't want a bunch of rules made where it becomes a hassle just to own them.   They have always been a big part of my life and I always look for what I consider good deals and would hate to have to do a bunch of paper work just to trade and buy and sell.  I bought a few guns from people needing money and the guns where good for them cause they had a way to get money and good for me cause I would get a fair deal.  The problim with trying to make money on guns is you would have to deal with too many people and too many guns because at best you are usually only going to make $50 to $100 for each gun you might sell.  I have bought guns and sold them just to make enough for a box of shells for my other guns.  What too many rules does is it makes it where only the really big buisness will think it is worth while and they will sell lots of guns with even smaller margins. 

That just takes one more thing that a small guy can play with and not lose his butt and makes it where only if you are big is it worth it.  They have already did that with thier liesencing to be a dealer by making the permit fee $600 rather then the ten bucks it used to be.  That fee raise only makes it worth it for big buisness and big box stores that deal in volume to sell.  No longer does a guy who just likes guns and will order it for you for ten buck profit.  It is just like when I was young and we would buy bucket calves and keep a couple of pigs around for extra money to supliment our real job. 

They regulate and get big conglomerates to be the only ones to do things and so everything ends up being done by only the biggest buisness.

It makes it hard to be an independant person that can have a few interest and talants and still get by.  Not every body wants to go big in just one thing or work for someone else and so I consider it a bit of a loss everytime a hobby gets regulated to where it is no fun to play cause it cost too much and if you want to play you have to go to the bigg guys and give them your money.

That is sorta more what I see as the truth then maby the government just really having a concern about safety.  And even if their concern about safty is genuine, it still caused the result of only the rich can play.
Just how an old uneducated dummy sees it.
Cheers
gww

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #65 on: November 14, 2017, 09:49:26 am »
Ace
I think deer might be my favorite meat.  We make no sausage sticks or hamberger but mostly slice it thin, salt, pepper, flower and fry.  The dog does get some too.

Dallas
I agree with you.  The s&w 29 is a good light gun with a better trigger pull them my ruger red hawk but the ruger is built like a tank and would take the heavy loads if that happened to be your passion.
Cheers
gww

Gww,

Yeah, I don't know why so many people make sausage with venison.  They have the best natural meat in the world and then they mix it with pork (at least that's what they do here) and ruin it.  I have never shot a deer, but I've hunted elk cows in Colorado and New Mexico and brought home hundred of pounds of good meat each time I managed to bag one.  I like to hunt cows because I don't care about antlers and I think the meat is more tender.

I don't hunt in Texas because all the land is privately owned.  We don't have a lot of forest service land we can hunt on like other western states, so you have to pay a lot to go on the ranches where the game are.

Agree that the Ruger is heavy duty, but there's no reason in the world to load so heavy that you can't eject the spent brass normally.  If you have to use a rod and mallet to get a case out of the cylinder, it's not fun to shoot anymore.  Besides that, the way the S&W frame is made, it rocked backs and the web between the thumb and forefinger was sore for a week after shooting that gun.  I can shoot a 12 gauge shotgun with a normal load with one hand and not have that kind of punisment.

"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #66 on: November 14, 2017, 10:03:10 am »
Gww,

That wild pig you ate may have been an old boar.  I hear the big old ones get pretty gameyl. Or it may not have been dressed right.  Like deer or elk, if not properly field dressed and butchered, the meat doesn't taste good.

I'd be interested in knowing how to contact that place that sells venison.  I'm getting too old to hunt, but sure like that meat.  I went to a restaurant the othere night that had a venison tongue crostini appetiser on the menu.  It was delicious.  I never thought about the tongue before, but I've always liked beef tongue, so why not?
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Acebird

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #67 on: November 14, 2017, 10:11:07 am »
And even if their concern about safty is genuine, it still caused the result of only the rich can play.

First it is not government that is worried about safety it is people and they are not going to go away.  I agree that it is heading to only the rich can play.  In my state hunting has dropped off so much that deer are a problem, eating crops, scrubs and smashing cars.
I think the NRA is the problem.  They are taking a hard right stance about the fears of today and creating more fear.  They should be working with the other side to not only put proper controls that are effective they should support the enforcement of the controls that they think will work.  Instead the NRA spews out propaganda that no controls will work.  So now it is just butting heads and they will lose.  You have sited one way they are going to lose.
I bought my shotgun when I was 16 for $45.  What does a box of shells cost today?  What does a double barrel go for today?  The people that the NRA should be protecting they are screwing.  Not unlike a labor union.
Here is an idea: Why does an individual need to be a dealer?  Why can't the NRA be the dealer for every private sale and be responsible for the back ground checks?  I would even go so far that every citizen who wants a gun be a member of the NRA at a very minimal fee.  Or does the general population of gun owners not trust the NRA?
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2017, 10:18:58 am »
I'd be interested in knowing how to contact that place that sells venison.

In my state if you like wild deer and it will be gamey every hunter I know has so much they give it away.  Stick to the southern zone where the deer are less gamey.  You go to the northern zone to get trophies.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2017, 10:28:20 am »
I looked up the cost of becoming a dealer and it's $200 for 3 years and Renewal fee is $90 for the next 3 years, so i don't know where the $600 figure came from gww.  I used to have a FFL and, like you said, I'd order firearms for people and charge $10 or so to handle it.  But the paperwork was a hassle and my legal practice got so busy I couldn't do it any more, so I quit renewing my license. Now I don't have an office to do business in and don't want people coming to my home, so there's no way I'd be a dealer.

Ace,  you keep harping on the NRA.  I am an endowment member of the NRA and have been a life member since about 1974.  The NRA is membership run.  I vote for directors of the organization every year.  It isn't in business to be a big gun dealer.  It's an advocacy organization.  I suggest you get some brochures and educate yourself on the work and workings of the NRA, then we'll try to talk about it.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #70 on: November 14, 2017, 10:44:54 am »
I'd be interested in knowing how to contact that place that sells venison.

In my state if you like wild deer and it will be gamey every hunter I know has so much they give it away.  Stick to the southern zone where the deer are less gamey.  You go to the northern zone to get trophies.

Well, see, I've never cared for trophies, so I don't hunt bucks (deer) or bulls (elk).  Never saw a rack I could eat and I've always hunted for meat.  Maybe bucks and bulls are a bit gamey, but I still contend that if a hunter properly field dresses a male animal and removes the glands right away, the meat will not be gamey.  That's what I was taught, but I just never went out looking for bucks or bulls -- well, not in the past 50 years, anyway.  I think it's better conservation to harvest females..   I was vice president of the New Mexico Wildlife Federation many years ago and studied that sort of thing.  At that time I was also a volunteer with the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish and a hunter safety instructor.  I've been away from that sort of thing since 1981 and have forgotten almost all the stuff I learned back then.

Good hunting, guys.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Online gww

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #71 on: November 14, 2017, 10:47:47 am »
Dallas
I am very lucky that my dad ownes 180 acres.  I live on 20 and have killed deer off of my land but it is more hit and miss and since a new house was built on ten acres beside me, I have not seen as many deer. 

I have also only tasted elk one time and it was canned.  I do do deer like you and don't go for horns though if that is what I see first I will usually shoot it cause it is better then getting no meat. 

I don't like shooting heavy loads.  I really like shooting the specials out of the 44 cause my ruger is heavy enough that it almost makes it as pleasent as shooting a 22 cal when you shoot 44 special out of it.  I know somebody that just got a casual 454 revolver.  When I was younger I was more excited about such things.  My brother has a little 38 wheel gun and dad had the ruger gp 100 357 cal.  I was wishing after I bought my redhawk that I would have went more that route.  The red hawk has a 7.5 inch barrel and I used to have a sholder hoslter but it was like dragging out a long rifle from your side.  It is the only gun in my life that I have ever bought new.  I don't want to go to a 2.5 inch barrel yet but 5 or six inch would be better then 7.5 inch if you have decided you are not just going to hunt with it.

This link will get you the phone number.  I tried the web site but it did not come up.  They send out catalogs.  I don't think they are cheap.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=swiss%20processing%20plant&PQ=swiss%20proce&SP=2&QS=AS&SK=AS1&sc=8-11&form=AGWBSS&pc=MAGW

Ace
I am not an nra member.  I was for one year but found I did not like thier positions either.  They are big on the training thing with them setting up the training and you paying them to get it.  Now if you have a gun and the bullet only comes out in one place on that gun and you point that one place at something and pull the trigger you might hit the thing you point at.  Just how much should I pay for that info?

They have a couple of other positions like drug laws and such that they are big on enforcing and that have nothing to do with guns.  I know why they do it, a little bait and switch. 

Dallas
Even $200 is alot but I could be wrong.  It happened quite some time ago and I reamember when it was changing but didn't think I could do anything about it and so it was just something that I put in my mind that it happened.  Late 80s I think.  Maby it has changed more then once but I did not keep up.  I never put bad info out on purpose but also just remember feelings about things as they happen more then follow and know every fact.  I just remember how I felt when they were changing it.  I am glad you checked and called me on it cause now I know more.
Cheers
gww
Ps dallas, I am not one to carry around my trophy all day showing it off and then still expecting it to taste good.  I get on it.
gww

Offline kathyp

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #72 on: November 14, 2017, 01:28:55 pm »
Quote
I think the NRA is the problem.

Maybe you could list some of those "hard right" positions you mention?  I, too, am a member and they are doing exactly what I pay them to do.

Quote
I am not an nra member.  I was for one year but found I did not like thier positions either.  They are big on the training thing with them setting up the training and you paying them to get it.  Now if you have a gun and the bullet only comes out in one place on that gun and you point that one place at something and pull the trigger you might hit the thing you point at.  Just how much should I pay for that info?

Paying for training!!  Who does that?   :wink:
They have a lot of great programs and sports shooting opportunities.  My membership is for advocacy.  I appreciate the education they offer because the better a person is at handling their weapon the safer they are.  Their programs for women and kids are especially good.  There is a range close to me that does the NRA womens training and it's pretty spectacular.  Many women are intimidated by firearms and afraid to ask for help.  Being in a class just for women is good for them.  I know of one who went from shaking so bad the instructor did hand over hand with her for weeks, to being a competitive shooter. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #73 on: November 14, 2017, 03:07:39 pm »
>but my number one choice for a defensive weapon would be a pump-action 12-gauge shotgun loaded with number 4 buckshot and an extended magazine.

Self defense situations happen at two or three feet away usually.  That would be my last choice.  My first choice is a pistol where they can't just deflect the barrel or grab it.  Preferably one big enough to stop them if need be.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2017, 03:16:14 pm »
>but my number one choice for a defensive weapon would be a pump-action 12-gauge shotgun loaded with number 4 buckshot and an extended magazine.

Self defense situations happen at two or three feet away usually.  That would be my last choice.  My first choice is a pistol where they can't just deflect the barrel or grab it.  Preferably one big enough to stop them if need be.

Normally, you are correct, but I'm referring to my home defence situation in which, if my alarm sounds, I have a long hallway between me and the front door and a sweeper would give me a big advantage.  Otherwise, my .40 Glock with laser sight would be my first choice.
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Online gww

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #75 on: November 14, 2017, 05:22:34 pm »
Kathy
I understand why the NRA promotes some of the training.  On almost every state for concealed carry they make you take a training course to get it.  I guess it is better then not being able to get it.  I will say that I took the course and spent my money and then never made an appointment thirty miles away to get the permit.  Lukily for me they changed MO law and now you can carry concealed even with out a permit which is what I did when I wanted regaurdless of the law anyway.  I just don't like the ideal of it and it is in many areas of life.  In indiana if you want your kid to get his drivers liesence at 16, you have to pay for a drivers course for him.  If you are born after 1964 and want to hunt expesially in places like colorado, you have to have a hunter safety course.  My view is that if all this is so important, they should teach it in school, which believe it or not, they did when I was young.

It just seems like promoting a money grab.

I do understand how they use it.  I even understand poeple deciding for them selves they want it.  I don't understand it being made a requirement that will keep more from enjoying the joys that are not that difficult that they need to provide training for it.  Politically, for every person who is lazy or has not help from a parent to pay the money and experiance those joys is one more person who could probly not miss it or think they are affected if the thing that is being enjoyed is taken away.

Dallas
My favorite defence weapon is the one closest to me when I need it.  I do agree with kathy that things you are more comfortable with give you more confidence.

My prayer is to never have to defend myself or hurt some one while doing so.  So far I have been lucky in this and am thankful for that.  I do think that pointing a gun at some one is not enough and so I would want bullets.  I remember when I was 18 and had one pointed at me and I was not smart enough to be scared.  Some guy was showing off to his friends.   He pointed it at me and said "you don't thing I will shoot and it made me lose my temper and I started walking towards him and said, "I don't know, will you"  I had a good friend that had saw what was going on and was on his way around the car to help me.  He had more sense when he saw what was going on and told me to get into the car.
This happened out side a bar with a group of guys leaning on my car when we came out and one walked out of his way to bump into me so he could show off.  I had never seen any of them before in my life.  I do not remember being scared but did get mad.  A loaded gun may not have helped me but with out my friend, an unloaded one might not had helped him.
Just saying.
gww

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #76 on: November 14, 2017, 05:50:13 pm »
Gww, as I mentioned above, in New Mexico I was a hunter safety instructor with the New Mexico Department of Fish and Game.  New Mexico also had a law as far back as early 1970 at lest that anybody born after a certain date or something had to complete a safety course.  It was free and the emphasis was definitely on safety.  It was offered at every office of the game and fish department.  It should have been free in Missouri, too.

The training may havevsaved some lives.  I hope so.

I have mixed feelings about carrying a weapon without a license.  For one thing, there are places here in Texas where carrying with or without a CCL is forbidden.  Then there's a property owner's right to forbid carrying and if you have a CCL and go in the place, you can lose your license and face felony charges just like those who don't have a CCL.  taking the course teaches you about these things.  I also question open carry, which we canbdo in Texas now.  That frightens some people, and it lets the bad guys know who to take out first.  I'd rather have them in the dark about my being armed.
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Online gww

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #77 on: November 14, 2017, 07:53:41 pm »
Dallas
I do not know if it was free or not but I do know for my nefews to get it, my dad had to take the day or two to take them to it cause their mom worked.  I know I tried to get both of my girls to take it and they were not interested and my reasoning to them was that even if now they were not interested in hunting that they may be invited on a trip of the life time and not be able to go.  Just such a thing happened when they were 30 years old and they were not prepared.  I hear you and you should be proud of your involvement but for me, I still think it is stupid. 

On the concealed and carry.  It was $100 for two 4 hour days and I went cause my exbrother inlaw was all gung ho but to be honest, I did it to please him cause I always had one when I wanted with out going.  Could I have got in trouble, yes, however, if I was feeling threatend and judging the odds of needing it, I took it and figured I would get a lawyer if it went bad.  I don't carry all the time, infact, maby only three or four times in my life.  I much rather have the law now where I need not be wrong and don't have to screw around with training that in the end will not give the person you are training comon sense if he has none.

One other thing about what happenned in the 70s just like you say.  My birth day was before 1964 and so I did not even need it and was taught it in school with no special trip to some office I don't even know where it was.  Now that people do need it you have to worki to get it.  I think all these things are one more hassle for parents that have to juggle their time as it is and could do just fine taking thier own kid hunting rather then a class room if they were going to spend the time and do quite well showing thier kids hunter safty by example and do it on thier schedual.  If they don't do that, I doubt they are going to take thier kid to some office to get it.  After a kid turns 30 you should not need to teach them anything.  They should have someone they can trust to do it by then.

I have open carried a lot.  Usually when deer hunting and some times fishing.

I think my grip about there being no need to jump through hoops on something as simple as fire arms is lagitamate.  That does not take away from the fact that as it is now, somebody has to do it and I have no doubt that you do it very well.  I don't know if the 4 to 8 hours you have with them is as good as a life time with a hunter parent or friend.

This is not a put down of your particapation but is a differrent belief that it is a needed hoop added on to people to particapate and one that probly does make more poeple not invested in the gun culture in a way that they do not mind if you lose what you have.  Poeple hate loseing thier stuff but don't seem to mind letting others stuff being taken away.  If a 30 year old whos parents were slackers gets a chance to go with friends on a good trip but they find out that before they can they have to waste two more days to be eligable, they might just say screw it and be lost forever.
I still say that in the end, the bullet only comes out in one place and if that place is pointed at the wrong thing and the trigger is pulled, you could hit that wrong thing.  It is not that hard.

https://www.hunter-ed.com/missouri/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Hunt_Missouri&utm_term=hunter%20safety&utm_content=Hunter%20Safety

I looked this link up and it says take the course on line and only pay after you have passed.  Even though I like the ideal of not having to go to a special place at a special time, it still looks like a money grab to me.
Cheers
gww

Online gww

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #78 on: November 14, 2017, 08:32:15 pm »
Dallas
Here is the history of the fee changes and historic changes to the ffl and a chart showing its effect on the little guy.
http://www.hoplofobia.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/History_of_FFL_License.pdf
So I may have gotten the $600 wrong but not the effect of the changes.  Page 10 shows cause and effect not even counting the other stuff done by george bush seniour or clinton.  It doesn't matter what republicans or democrats promise when we vote cause the trend is clear.  It is just extra hassle for people that got by fine with out it.

 The clearest example of good people getting hurt to stop bad people from being bad are things like this or like the regulating suitifed making it hard on sick people just so a bad person won't make crank with it.  I say some day they should just quit worring about stopping the bad people at the good peoples expence.  There has to be another way.
Cheers
gww

Offline Acebird

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Re: Texas church shooting
« Reply #79 on: November 15, 2017, 09:27:51 am »
I think it's better conservation to harvest females..
Bucks are way harder to get then females and the bucks tend to kill themselves.  Females tend to be younger.  Gamey is a result of age and what they eat.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it