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Author Topic: What happens to reliquified creamed honey?  (Read 116 times)

Offline mtnb

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What happens to reliquified creamed honey?
« on: September 20, 2017, 10:37:16 am »
I was just wondering...say you make creamed honey but for some reason it got overheated and reliquified. After time, I'm assuming, it'll crystallize again but will it turn back into the consistency of creamed honey? I know. Stupid question. I'm guessing not? Since I've controlled the size of the crystals, will it just crystallize very finely and have a harder texture and not be more creamy like? Am I making any sense? lol
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: What happens to reliquified creamed honey?
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2017, 01:23:12 pm »
Not necessarily.  If it melts completely the crystals have been dissolved.  Also, if there is liquid to crystallize, it may grow on existing crystals which may make the crystals larger which will make the texture grittier.  It may crystallize small because of other factors like sugar content (proportions of sucrose/dextrose/fructose) or other factors like the temperature of the honey.  Ideally you would keep it 57? F (14? C) to get it to crystallize quickly which contributes to it crystallizing with fine (small) crystals.

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Offline Acebird

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Re: What happens to reliquified creamed honey?
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2017, 02:13:46 pm »
If it were made by the approved process it would have to be remade by the same process.
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Offline mtnb

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Re: What happens to reliquified creamed honey?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2017, 07:36:11 pm »
So crystallization at higher temperature causes larger crystals. I didn't know that. Thanks for your reply Mr. Bush. That was helpful.
Thanks Ace for confirming what I thought.
I think I'll just test it with some creamed honey I have and see what happens. Thanks guys.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: What happens to reliquified creamed honey?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2017, 08:32:06 am »
So crystallization at higher temperature causes larger crystals.

Not exactly.  It is a temperature range.  Mike said 57 degrees I thought it was 47 degrees closer to a refrigerator range.  If you go lower or higher crystallization slows down.  The process of creamed honey uses seed crystals that are much finer than what would result if you let it crystallize on its own.  That is basically the only difference.  I bottle honey and put it in the refrigerator.  It becomes solid and white like ice cream and I sell it as raw creamed honey.  If you take it out of the fridge it will start to reliquify and become dark again in the summer time.

Edit:  I see that Mike is right on the 57 degrees, go figure. :-)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 09:08:10 am by Acebird »
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: What happens to reliquified creamed honey?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2017, 08:56:06 am »
MT,
If you have crystalized honey with the consistency that you want, just use 10% of the amount of honey you want to make to make the creamed honey. That is how it is made.
If you do not have enough to make what you want, make one batch and then using that batch, which is 10 times as much as the original creamed honey, to make the rest.
Have fun.
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Offline Jim 134

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Re: What happens to reliquified creamed honey?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2017, 10:49:39 am »
       I have made my own seed Crystal .With a mortar and pestle.. you can buy seed Crystal.. Hope you have a great adventure if you try this.

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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: What happens to reliquified creamed honey?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2017, 02:09:32 pm »
>So crystallization at higher temperature causes larger crystals.

Both sides of 57 F crystallize more slowly.  But yes, anything int he range of 45 to 60 F seems to work fine in my experience.  I usually do my creamed honey when the weather is cold and set it on the window sill...  I was listening to Walter Diehnelt of honey acres speak.  He told the story of how Cornell was always trying to enforce their patent by suing every beekeeper who dared to sell crystallized honey.  One day some lawyers from Cornell showed up at their store where the Diehnelt's were selling "Candied Honey" and informed them that they were violating Cornell's patent and that Cornell wanted them to pay royalties.  Walter's dad looked very worried but explained that he know nothing of any patent or of this patented Dyce process.  The lawyers said they would prove it.  They asked where the room was that the honey was "candied" and Walter's father took them in the back room where the honey was.  They asked to see the thermostat and his father asked how that would prove anything.  The lawyer informed him that if the thermostat was set to 57 F then they would be in violation of the patent.  Walter said he saw relief flood over his father's face.  His father said he didn't have a thermostat.  So the lawyer said, how do you control the temperature?  And his father said, when it gets to cold I light the wood stove there and if I think it's too hot, I open the window there.  The lawyer angrily picked up his briefcase and stomped out.  It doesn't have to be perfect...
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Offline mtnb

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Re: What happens to reliquified creamed honey?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2017, 11:07:32 am »
       I have made my own seed Crystal .With a mortar and pestle.. you can buy seed Crystal.. Hope you have a great adventure if you try this.

      BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:

Last year was my first time making creamed honey and this is what I did too. It turned out a little on the more harder side and this year I realized it was because I didn't really use a %, I just sorta eyeballed and think I added way too much seed. This year I stuck closer to the 10%, and it's really nice and smooth. I'm getting really good feedback on it and have sold all but one of the jars I made.
I posed the question because I gave a half pint jar to this kid at work who really loves honey. He'd never had creamed honey before, although he was very familiar with comb honey. He was so excited to have it and really loved it. But, he left it in his car one hot day, and he told me later that it had reliquified and had just turned into regular honey again. We never found out what could have happened to the honey because, like I said he loves honey, and he ate it all up before it crystalized again. lol

Last year, I made it more when the temps were cool. In my garage. The temp was perfect. Right around 55*F. That took only about a week. This year I wanted to have some for sale while I still had regular honey also, so I made some in a cooler with ice. At first the temperature was fluctuating because I was trying to play with the lid, trying to get the temp right. It was very slow going for about 2 weeks. (it was only a cheap Styrofoam cooler and the outside temps were still in the 90s) I finally worked it out where two frozen ice packs lasted about a full day and night to maintained around high 50s. Two large frozen water bottles last from morning to night, or night to morning, before needing to be exchanged. It was kind of a pain but it turned out really nice. That took about another week before it cured properly.

Great story, Mr. Bush. I remember reading that before somewhere. I think I'd like to learn more about the crystallization process...Oh great, now I need to learn chemistry too! ;) lol
Ace, what is the consistency of your creamed honey? I put a thermostat in my fridge and on the lowest setting, it was in the upper 40s. I opted not to use it. Mine I would say is more toffee like.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: What happens to reliquified creamed honey?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2017, 02:13:32 pm »
Out of the refrigerator it is pretty stiff.  I have to take it out and let it warm up to room temperature so I can spoon it out of the jar.  It will be coarser then yours if you followed the standard process.  The only real way to make a comparison is for me to send you a sample.  I would need your address.

It gets pretty hot in a car so that reliquified honey might not crystallized back on its own.
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