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Author Topic: Big Lies  (Read 14484 times)

Online iddee

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #360 on: October 17, 2019, 03:10:44 pm »
Wow, you do let it be known when the truth brings you pain, don't you. You are correct, PC is NOT one of my attributes. I call it like I see it. Sorry if it pains you.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #361 on: October 17, 2019, 03:33:48 pm »
Quote
After all, what did it achieve? Kill maybe an estimated two million Vietnamese civilians another 5.3 million injured and about 11 million, by US government figures, became refugees in their own country.

Kennedy realized that if we did not stop communism from spreading much of SE Asia would be lost to it.  Because we did not fight the war as we did WW2, we ended up doing no good, and Kennedy was proved correct.  We do not know how many millions were lost to the following communist regimes or tossed into "reeducation camps" never to be seen again. 

It was not the wrong war to fight, but it was fought the wrong way.  We should never go to war if our goal is not to win a quickly and efficiently as we can.  If collateral damage is a concern, we should stay home. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #362 on: October 17, 2019, 04:41:40 pm »
>We should never go to war if our goal is not to win a quickly and efficiently as we can.

Politicians should be forced to read Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" with special attention to the "Never" and "Always" statements.  If they would have followed Sun Tzu's advice they would either have refrained or won quickly.  Unfortunately sometimes folling Sun Tzu's advice will get your fired.  Sun Tzu says it is not the job of the General to please the Emperor.  It is the job of the General to win the war.  McCarthy probably read that and decided to take all of Korea.  If communications had been as slow as in Sun Tzu's day, all of Korea would be free today... and maybe a lot of China as well...


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Offline CoolBees

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #363 on: October 17, 2019, 04:52:34 pm »
...  We do not know how many millions were lost to the following communist regimes or tossed into "reeducation camps" never to be seen again.  ....

This is very correct. A close friend of mine spent several years in a "Re-education Camp" after the Vietnam War ended. He was a South Vietnamese Naval Officer during the war. They told him he'd be there in the camp for "2-weeks". With the help of family, he was finally able to escape the camp, and immediately the country. Most of his friends died in that camp (malnutrition, disease, execution, etc.). He lives near me now and his story is horrific. ... just another example of the "benevolence" of Communism.

Most estimates place the death toll in Communist China to be over 56 million (taken - never to return or staight-up executed). Genealogy data suggests this number is actually over 110 million. ...  just another example of the "benevolence" of Communism

The examples like this are seemingly endless.

Hillary (and the dems) love socialism/communism/progressivism/liberalism/whatever-name-you-want-to-give-IT.

Trump loves the freedom of the individual - as America was founded.

Take your pick - but choose wisely ... says I.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #364 on: October 17, 2019, 04:53:42 pm »
>We should never go to war if our goal is not to win a quickly and efficiently as we can.

?There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.? ? Sun Tzu

?There are roads which must not be followed, armies which must not be attacked, towns which must not be besieged, positions which must not be contested, commands of the sovereign which must not be obeyed.? ? Sun Tzu

"He who wishes to fight must first count the cost. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men?s weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be dampened. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor dampened, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue? In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."? Sun Tzu

"There are three ways in which a ruler can bring misfortune upon his army: By commanding the army to advance or to retreat, being ignorant of the fact that it cannot obey; This is called hobbling the army. By attempting to govern an army in the same way as he administers a kingdom, being ignorant of the conditions which obtain in an army; This causes restlessness in the soldier?s minds. By employing the officers of his army without discrimination, through ignorance of the military principle of adaptation to circumstances. This shakes the confidence of the soldiers."? Sun Tzu

"He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight. He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces. He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks. He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared. He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign." ? Sun Tzu

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Online cidersabuzzin

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #365 on: October 17, 2019, 08:16:26 pm »
Wow, you do let it be known when the truth brings you pain, don't you. You are correct, PC is NOT one of my attributes. I call it like I see it. Sorry if it pains you.
And which part pains me? You using your uncle's injuries (which was despicable) or joining WWII only in near 1942? it pains me that you could use such an argument in this day and age. But then again you are iddee the self-confessed racist. Sleep well, at least you will after the nurses have dispensed the pills.
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Online iddee

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #366 on: October 17, 2019, 09:59:24 pm »
""I will say and have said thank you to the people of that time, but most definitely not to YOU.""

This is why I brought up my uncle. I was telling you that "the people of that time" was my family, therefore me.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #367 on: October 18, 2019, 12:27:03 am »
Depends on who you mean by YOU. My father's youngest brother took 2 50 caliber rounds in the gut during that war.16 feet of plastic intestines and a goat's stomach. I put my time in "nam. Since I came back whole, does that lessen the value of my mission?

My mother?s first cousin took a bullet from a German sniper on Christmas🎄Day during the battle of the bulge never to see another day on this earth. Never to grow old, have a family, go hunting, or just enjoy life as his life was ended that day, fighting for the freedom of the world against fascist socialist,  and the ternary they commanded.  He gave all. I would think that any person who was born in, before, or anytime near  that era should be grateful, not only for his sacrifice, but all that fought, all who had any part of supporting our soldiers, ALL citizens gave something to that war effort, including kids like iddee which collected all types of materials for the war effort. This war was an all out war, winner take all. Our citizens from all ages sacrificed, giving up meat to eat on certain days,  leather for shoes, etc to make sure our boys had all we could give them to be successful. Iron was collected, all type of materials was scrapped and given for the war effort. Women worked in factories building planes, tanks, ammunition etc for our boys as well as our partners in this awful war. Not only for our benefit, were these sacrifices made, but for the benefit of the entire free world; our country  as well as the others, united in battle,... LEST WE FORGET.
Phillip

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #368 on: October 18, 2019, 12:43:00 pm »
So far, I have seen no mention of the arms and other materiel provided by the US to to Allies prior to US entry into the war.  The US military was so weak before Pearll Harbor that it couldn't have been much help anyway.  My father and his brother joined the army in 1934 and served through the war.  My father did his part in the Battle of the Bulge and was awarded a bronze star, which none of us knew about until after he died.  That kind of modesty was typical of his generation, I think.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Online cidersabuzzin

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #369 on: October 18, 2019, 07:59:13 pm »
So far, I have seen no mention of the arms and other materiel provided by the US to to Allies prior to US entry into the war.  The US military was so weak before Pearll Harbor that it couldn't have been much help anyway.  My father and his brother joined the army in 1934 and served through the war.  My father did his part in the Battle of the Bulge and was awarded a bronze star, which none of us knew about until after he died.  That kind of modesty was typical of his generation, I think.
As did mine, he volunteered before the start and served till 1946 thankfully coming home in one piece.

After our gold reserves had been depleted you looked for other things to 'acquire'!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyers-for-bases_deal
So you can see it wasn't a case of being 'altruistic' it was more a case of self-interest. Albeit gratefully received self-interest.
cider
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Offline salvo

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #370 on: October 27, 2019, 02:34:06 pm »
Hi Folks,

Well! Trump finally got BIG DADDY! Just like in Beach Party Bingo!

He didn't tell Paloozi because she was busy with other things.

Eriv Von Zipper
Salvo

Online iddee

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #371 on: October 27, 2019, 04:15:24 pm »
Yep, there's his "pull-out." Now he's talking about leaving a protective force in Syria. He is one smart man. :cheesy:
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*