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Author Topic: Big Lies  (Read 14878 times)

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #340 on: October 03, 2019, 06:58:33 am »
Salvo,
Unless there is something connected to the picture that is forbidden, you should bee able to post it. Did you make sure it was as small enough?
Send me the picture and I will post it.
Jim Altmiller

Offline salvo

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #341 on: October 03, 2019, 08:16:22 pm »
Hi Sawdust,

Hakuna Matata.

I had no booby pictures,... but it was a funny line, and twenty minutes of my life I'll never get back.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Nyuk Nyuk!

Sal

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #342 on: October 08, 2019, 11:11:26 am »
Hi Sawdust,

Hakuna Matata.

I had no booby pictures,... but it was a funny line, and twenty minutes of my life I'll never get back.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Nyuk Nyuk!

Sal
Statement by  Anne Sacoolas the 42 yr old wife of a US 'diplomat'? stationed at a US Air Force Base in the UK. After she allegedly drove on the wrong side of the road (right instead of left) and hit an 18 yr old motorcyclist head-on, killing him. After being interviewed by the Police stated "I have no intention of leaving the country" less than two weeks later she and her family decamped to the US without informing anyone and now cannot be contacted (they are claiming Diplomatic Immunity) Is this a correct use of 'Diplomatic immunity' or should it now be a case of tit for tat?
I think there is a saying 'How to make friends and influence people' or 'With friends like these, who needs enemies' :rolleyes:
cider :sad: :angry:     
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 11:51:09 am by cidersabuzzin »
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Online iddee

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #343 on: October 08, 2019, 12:07:58 pm »
This is one more time we agree, cider. She should stand trial. You're going to have to quit this. It'll ruin our reputations.    :shocked: :cheesy:
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #344 on: October 08, 2019, 12:13:44 pm »
Agreed 100%.   Diplomatic immunity is badly abused by many bad actors.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #345 on: October 08, 2019, 01:23:20 pm »
Quote
his is one more time we agree, cider. She should stand trial. You're going to have to quit this. It'll ruin our reputations.   

Quote
Agreed 100%.   Diplomatic immunity is badly abused by many bad actors.

Mixed feelings on this.  What she did was wrong, but diplomatic immunity exists for a reason.  It is generally not waved for things like traffic accidents absent something like DUI, and there is no indication that she was under the influence.  I also suspect that leaving was more the SD idea.  It was a bad idea.

I understand the upset, but this kind of thing happens all the time and it happens here a lot because the UN is here.  It's the tradeoff we get for protecting diplomats from bad actors in bad places. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #346 on: October 08, 2019, 03:14:02 pm »
Quote
his is one more time we agree, cider. She should stand trial. You're going to have to quit this. It'll ruin our reputations.   

Quote
Agreed 100%.   Diplomatic immunity is badly abused by many bad actors.

Mixed feelings on this.  What she did was wrong, but diplomatic immunity exists for a reason.  It is generally not waved for things like traffic accidents absent something like DUI, and there is no indication that she was under the influence.  I also suspect that leaving was more the SD idea.  It was a bad idea.

I understand the upset, but this kind of thing happens all the time and it happens here a lot because the UN is here.  It's the tradeoff we get for protecting diplomats from bad actors in bad places.
Thanks for your 'sympathy'? KathyP,  hopefully, it is directed to the family.
Could the woman have not waived DI? Could she have not said it was right to stay and have her day in court? We are not a country that she would have been taken outside and shot. No, she has left behind a twin brother and mother and father devastated by her cowardice. How would you feel if it was one of yours? But undoubtedly you would say there is some section of the 'constitution' that covers it. But Kath, it doesn't by half. :rolleyes:   
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 05:03:15 pm by cidersabuzzin »
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Online kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #347 on: October 08, 2019, 04:03:51 pm »
Quote
Thanks for your 'sympathy'? KathyP,  hopefully, it is directed to the family.
Could the woman have not waived DI? Could she have not said it was right to stay and have her day in court? We are not a country that she would have been taken outside and shot. No, she has left behind a twin brother and mother and father devastated by her cowardice. How would you feel if it was one of yours? Undoubtedly you would say there would be some section of the 'constitution' that covers it. It doesn't by half. :rolleyes:   

I would be unhappy.  Probably angry.  I don't know if she could have waived it.  It certainly could have been waived.

Yes, I feel bad for the family.  As a practical matter though, diplomatic immunity needs to be protected.  You are correct that your legal system would have given her a fair trial, but the precedent might have put someone in a less civilized country in jeopardy.  I'm not defending anything, but just pointing out that this is not new, and there are reasons for the rules that we all sign on to.  We have this issue especially in NY becasue of the gazillion UN people.  They can pretty much do as they please and no one can touch them. 


They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #348 on: October 08, 2019, 05:28:58 pm »
Quote
Thanks for your 'sympathy'? KathyP,  hopefully, it is directed to the family.
Could the woman have not waived DI? Could she have not said it was right to stay and have her day in court? We are not a country that she would have been taken outside and shot. No, she has left behind a twin brother and mother and father devastated by her cowardice. How would you feel if it was one of yours? Undoubtedly you would say there would be some section of the 'constitution' that covers it. It doesn't by half. :rolleyes:   

I would be unhappy.  Probably angry.  I don't know if she could have waived it.  It certainly could have been waived.

Yes, I feel bad for the family.  As a practical matter though, diplomatic immunity needs to be protected.  You are correct that your legal system would have given her a fair trial, but the precedent might have put someone in a less civilized country in jeopardy.  I'm not defending anything, but just pointing out that this is not new, and there are reasons for the rules that we all sign on to.  We have this issue especially in NY becasue of the gazillion UN people.  They can pretty much do as they please and no one can touch them.

Can you not see your no better than the trash in NY who evade parking tickets etc? DI was devised for more serious things than parking tickets! The woman should be returned forthwith and it would demonstrate your commitment to the real meaning of DI instead of admitting it can be used to avoid prosecution for killing innocent teenagers.
cider   
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Online kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #349 on: October 08, 2019, 06:18:18 pm »
Unfortunately, as one NYC cop put it, someone with DI could stand in the middle of the road and murder another and not end up arrested.  Ejected maybe, but not arrested. 

Neither you nor I have any say in it. 

It's not even always those with immunity.  We had a foreign student kill a girl in a hit and run.  He was found, arrested, released pending trial, and his embassy whisked him out of the country in the night. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #350 on: October 08, 2019, 06:56:07 pm »
Unfortunately, as one NYC cop put it, someone with DI could stand in the middle of the road and murder another and not end up arrested.  Ejected maybe, but not arrested. 

Neither you nor I have any say in it. 

It's not even always those with immunity.  We had a foreign student kill a girl in a hit and run.  He was found, arrested, released pending trial, and his embassy whisked him out of the country in the night.
Did they go after the country as they presumably were abusing DI? Probably not, why? because they want to preserve the same level of bogus DI for their own personnel, as has just happened in the UK. What a way for two presumably civilised countries to treat each other. Again "With f........
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Online kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #351 on: October 08, 2019, 09:36:46 pm »
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Did they go after the country as they presumably were abusing DI? Probably not, why? because they want to preserve the same level of bogus DI for their own personnel, as has just happened in the UK. What a way for two presumably civilised countries to treat each other. Again "With f........

It wasn't even someone with diplomatic immunity.  Once they were out of the country it was pretty much out of our hands.  Short of some kind of national move against the kids country, there wasn't much to be done about it.  It was a country with which we do not have an extradition treaty.  Personally, I'd not let anyone in that came from one of those countries, but I'm pretty sure someone would scream RACIST since most of those countries are OTW. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #352 on: October 13, 2019, 04:45:57 am »
Apparently, that is correct in this case also, she didn't/ doesn't have immunity. It now begs the question why was she 'spirited' away on a cargo plane back to the US? Now would you like to bet on the reverse happening? not a snowball in hells chance! You complain of the UN in NY this is the same thing in action.
cider
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

Online kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #353 on: October 13, 2019, 12:30:41 pm »
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Apparently, that is correct in this case also, she didn't/ doesn't have immunity. It now begs the question why was she 'spirited'

Diplomatic immunity is also extended to the family of the diplomat.  one of the problems with having the UN in NY is that anyone attached to it claims that immunity whether or not they are really supposed to have it, but that has nothing to do with your case or the one here.
Complaining to the UN would do nothing.  They are useless. 

Look, I think what she did stinks.  I don't support cowardice.  Whether we like it or not, the legal bit is different. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #354 on: October 16, 2019, 06:18:06 pm »
I see today DT  tried to engineer a 'surprise meeting' between the mother and father of the motorcyclist killed by the runaway spies wife. Who advises this man? Hope they have nothing to do with your defence. :wink:
cider TY 
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #355 on: October 16, 2019, 07:18:55 pm »
NO, they don't have any more to do with our defense than they do yours. Where would you and your country be today if it weren't for them and their predecessors?

Now say "Thank You" rather than "Danke Schoen"
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #356 on: October 17, 2019, 09:28:34 am »
NO, they don't have any more to do with our defense than they do yours. Where would you and your country be today if it weren't for them and their predecessors?

Now say "Thank You" rather than "Danke Schoen"
Have I not before? If it was the case us not saying, Danke Schoen why did you not arrive in '39? and wait until the Japanese gave you a kick up the ass?
I will say and have said thank you to the people of that time, but most definitely not to YOU.
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #357 on: October 17, 2019, 11:51:12 am »
Depends on who you mean by YOU. My father's youngest brother took 2 50 caliber rounds in the gut during that war.16 feet of plastic intestines and a goat's stomach. I put my time in "nam. Since I came back whole, does that lessen the value of my mission?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #358 on: October 17, 2019, 12:01:35 pm »
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why did you not arrive in '39? and wait until the Japanese gave you a kick up the ass?

Because we were isolationists at the time.   :wink:
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #359 on: October 17, 2019, 02:48:25 pm »
Yes, Kathy, I appreciate what the sentimentality was at the time.
It was in reply to iddee's pathetic and sarcastic post re speaking German. What type of mentality makes him use the injuries of his uncle in WWII with him returning from Vietnam uninjured, maybe he feels guilty! After all, what did it achieve? Kill maybe an estimated two million Vietnamese civilians another 5.3 million injured and about 11 million, by US government figures, became refugees in their own country.
I've said before I despair of wally but this takes the biscuit. At least he picked the correct pseudonym pity he forgot the iot. :rolleyes:
cider
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be, as long as you elect sane politicians who are not embarrassed about their hair" with apologies to SS