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Author Topic: Gas box for drawn frames  (Read 595 times)

Online Acebird

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Re: Gas box for drawn frames
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2017, 09:06:56 pm »
It doesn't affect mary jane.  Just like homeland security in the airports all they need is dogs.  They don't need to look at my shriveling balls.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline eltalia

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Re: Gas box for drawn frames
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2017, 02:15:56 am »
It doesn't affect mary jane.  Just like homeland security in the airports all they need is dogs.  They don't need to look at my shriveling.... (edit)

Like that line in the song goes, I reckon...
"Take a letter Mary, send it to my....[insert deity name person here]"

:chuckles:

Bill

Offline Robo

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Re: Gas box for drawn frames
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2017, 09:40:38 am »
Jim,

Here is another option and what I use for wax moth control (Assume it would work for SHB as well).   I built a box lid that sits on a stack of hive bodies and has a UV ozone light in it.   I have mine on a timer that comes on for 20min (limitation of timer) every 6 hrs. I just move it from stack to stack when I get a chance.   Easy to use and does not require any enclosures.   Works well for me and hopefully is providing some beneficial disinfection as well.


"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison



Online Acebird

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Re: Gas box for drawn frames
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2017, 09:50:37 am »
Might I make a suggestion ...
Turn the light 90 degrees and mount it underneath the box.  Do one box at a time.  This will give the comb maximum exposure.  I don't think you need the timer you just need to find out the exposure time for kill ratio.  Using two lights would be better and give a more even exposure across the length of the frame.  In your present set up past the two center frames are getting nothing.  The boxes below even less.
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Offline Robo

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Re: Gas box for drawn frames
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2017, 11:00:31 am »
I guess I should have been clearer that I am just using the lights as a source for ozone.  I was also looking for something simple and quick. 

Ozone is heavier than air and tends to settle, so by putting it on top, not only does it avoid having to move hive bodies around all the time,  it also gets quicker exposure to the ozone.  Since ozone generating bulbs have a fixed lifetime, but using the timer I am hopefully extending how much use I get out of it.  Even at 20 minutes 4x a day, the frames maintain a strong ozone smell whenever they are taken.   I could probably reduce the exposure even more.   With this one setup I can easily protect 50-60 drawn hive bodies (most likely even more if I had a need and a more regimented plan) with minimal work.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison



Online Acebird

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Re: Gas box for drawn frames
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2017, 05:51:40 pm »
I didn't know there was such a thing as an oZone bulb.  My familiarity with ozone generating would come from arching.
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Offline little john

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Re: Gas box for drawn frames
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2017, 05:08:24 am »
I didn't know there was such a thing as an oZone bulb.  My familiarity with ozone generating would come from arching.

Me too.  I had to look that one up.  I must say that the idea of using one of those kitchen electronic fly-killers (blue-white lamp and high-voltage mesh) to deal with wax-moths is very appealing indeed.  Will have to work on this.  Thanks, Robo.
LJ
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Offline eltalia

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Re: Gas box for drawn frames
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2017, 06:31:05 am »
I alone am never going to infuence you fellas to "think green".. hey?

                  :chuckles:
Bill

Offline little john

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Re: Gas box for drawn frames
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2017, 10:18:23 am »
Well - if you know of a simple 'green' method of keeping several hundred drawn brood combs wax-moth-free over winter ... I'm all ears.  Up until now I've been freezing the combs, a couple of dozen at a time, then storing them in stacked brood boxes under dust covers. This works ok-ish, but not brilliantly, and is a faff-around to arrange.  I find plastic bags/sheeting causes mold build-up - else I'd use plastic.  So - what's the green answer ?
LJ



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Offline eltalia

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Re: Gas box for drawn frames
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2017, 09:31:27 pm »

Well - if you know of a simple 'green' method of keeping several hundred drawn brood combs wax-moth-free over winter ... I'm all ears.
(edit)
 So - what's the green answer ?
LJ

There is no "green answer" for all applications, yet one specific answer could be deployed in your situation, LJ.
That answer lies, as always, in looking at the target;

http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/agriculture/pests-diseases-and-weeds/pest-insects-and-mites/wax-moth-a-pest-of-combs-and-honey-bee-products

"Damage occurs mainly in the warm and hot months of the year when wax moths are most active. However, considerable damage can still occur during the cool part of late autumn and early spring as greater wax moth can produce a large amount of metabolic heat which can raise the immediate temperature around them by up to 25C above the normal environment temperature. Little if any damage is seen in the extremely cold winter period, because the larvae are relatively inactive.
(edit)
"The eggs hatch within 3 - 5 days when temperatures range from 29C to 35C. Hatching is delayed when temperatures are colder and at 18C hatching commences about 30 days after egg laying."

So... in your barn/shed a palletised stack of boxed frames could be wrapped in builders plastic, taped to a loose seal to ground, and fed by a simple cobbled together timed gas feed of dry nitrogen initiated/terminated via a "top of stack" mounted thermostat with a set point of 0.Celcius and a diffetential of 5.
The operation would then inject nitrogen say twice a day for four hours when the stack ambient reached 0.Celcius, becoming inactive at ambients below -5.Celcius.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighter_than_air
"Nitrogen gas (density 1.251 g/L at STP, average atomic mass 28.00 g/mol) is about 3% lighter than air, insufficient for common use as a lifting gas."

Of lower usage cost then Argon and only marginally more cost inhibitive than CO2 - given quantities used - nitrogen should prove a safe cheaper alternative than options put so far. Though I am liking Robo's option as it suits us in the tropics whereas the nitrogen option may prove a higher cost over the electrical charge for ozone generation, for us.

http://www.rentfreegas.com.au/hvac-nitrogen-bottle-rent-free-cost-comparison/

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=cost%20of%20dry%20nitrogen%20per%20cylinder&source=web&cd=6&ved=0ahUKEwjs_KuSutLVAhUDW7wKHaifAKkQFggoMAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.umass.edu%2Fprocurement%2Fcontracts%2FCA11-RH-4042%2520-%2520Pricing%2520Recap%2520for%2520Air%2520Gas.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGQDlYMPCqi3HTdMCi34xVIDifgLA

http://www.peakscientific.com/genius/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8Ki5i8HS1QIVk4C9Ch26IQjMEAAYAyAAEgKZz_D_BwE

http://www.bubble-o-meter.com/bom.php?curPos=BOM

Flow control is achieved via a 24hour timer controlling a thermostat initiated solenoid which feeds a simple glass/poly bubbler from a regulated nitrogen cylinder. For fault protection all that electrical apparatus could be fed from a 20AmpHour gel cell battery charged through a self regulating 12Volt amorphous photovoltaic cell, roof mounted.


For myself none of any of these options for wax moth control are or ever have been required as it just not something I have ever had to worry about in either a commercial or domestic apiary operation.
Storing comb long term is not a feature of Aussie bee management, in my experience.
The above is simply what has been put together from some light reading and a little thought around how - in a past life - we handled farm-gate produce pest and disease control, using ethlyene and fumicides for hundreds of tonnes of produce daily.
If required I could supply electrical and gas plumbing schematics.

Cheers.

Bill