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Author Topic: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?  (Read 1554 times)

Offline jvalentour

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Been running 10 frame for a few years and picked up a few 8 frame from a retiring keeper.  Put them into service and they overwintered well and are doing slightly better than the other hives on average.  I run a deep under mediums.  Winter 1 deep and one medium with plenty of feed.
Found them useful as a nuc as well.
Other than size, has anyone found any down side to the 8 frames?

Offline paus

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2017, 06:44:54 pm »
I was going to go to 8 frame deeps from 10 deeps but I ran into a buy in 10 deep so "The best laid plans........" out window until next year.

Offline yes2matt

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2017, 07:54:31 pm »
Is the deep and medium together big enough for a spring brood nest or do they move up into a third box?  I have a 8-fr all medium set of boxes that I haven't decided whether to sell or add a couple deeps on the bottom.

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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2017, 08:42:54 pm »
Quite often the bees do not use the outer frames.
Jim
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2017, 08:55:49 pm »
Other than size, has anyone found any down side to the 8 frames?

The difference is cost vs. handling lighter supers.  If you want the advantage of handling lighter supers then get 8 frame.  If you want the economy of operation and don't care about the weight then get 10 frame.  It is that simple.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Jim 134

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2017, 08:56:21 pm »
The downside. I see the hive needs to be stacked taller. :wink:  To have the same amount of frames.


             BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
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Offline cao

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2017, 11:07:51 pm »
Other than size, has anyone found any down side to the 8 frames?
I've got 10, 8, and 5 frame equipment.  Deeps, mediums and shallows.  Yes I'm a glutten for punishment. :wink:  But you can't learn if you don't try it.
The biggest downside that I see for 8 frame equipment is if you buy boxes from different suppliers they may not match.  I built my own and made them 13 1/2 inches wide.  Mann lake's boxes are 14 inches wide.  To me that is too much extra space.  I had five hives over winter just fine this year that was in 8 frame boxes.  They were 3 mediums tall with no extra feed.  One that was 2 mediums tall, I had to add a sugar brick to them so they wouldn't starve.

If you really want to try something.  Try a few shallow boxes.  I actually like them better than mediums.

Offline Bush_84

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 12:24:15 am »
The biggest thing I've noticed is decreased options through suppliers. I build most of my own equipment so it's not as big of a deal, but good luck finding a cloake board or slatted rack. Having said that I do run 8 frames. There may be nothing really to it but I do think that more narrow box is more easily filled out in winter. I have never kept 10 frames, but I hear a lot about bees not using the outer frames. I don't run into much of that with 8 frame equipment. I don't think you could really go wrong either way though. Do what you feel is right.
Keeping bees since 2011.

Also please excuse the typos.  My iPad autocorrect can be brutal.

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2017, 08:27:27 am »
We run 8fr deeps as brood box and 8fr deep supers. An 8 fr deep full of honey is heavy enough to lift
As far as box size, our are 12 1/4 inches inside with 7/8" walls, so 14" outside.
I found 10fr deeps too heavy when a big flow is on.
.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2017, 08:54:30 am »
The downside. I see the hive needs to be stacked taller.

The beekeeper dictates how high the hive gets with the decision to pull or not pull.  Some would consider pulling sooner an advantage.  Especially if you are going after pure sources.
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Offline Jim 134

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2017, 03:26:08 pm »
I do run three ten deeps frame boxes. For a brood nest. It would have to be 4/8 frame brood boxes. For a brood nest. With the extra box. The height of top of the brood Nets would be approximately 11 inches taller from 10 frames Deeps. As compared to 10 frames deeps. Also I usually put on three medium supers at a time. If bees were 8 frame boxes it would be 4 boxes. Now the hive is approximately 18 inches taller then if it was 10 frames.

      BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :smile:
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2017, 05:26:20 pm »
I calculate the 8 frame hive to be 4.438 higher than the ten frame hive.  The 8 frame is 8 boxes high and the 10 frame is 7 boxes high and I know you don't have to go over 8 high unless you want bragging rights.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2017, 08:37:58 pm »
Question from downunder,
Why do a lot of US beeks run multiple brood boxes? Are the multi brood systems stationary or do you move them to different honey flows?

Offline Acebird

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2017, 08:55:07 pm »
Very stationary for me.  I think those that move hives are going for pollen contracts so their focus is building population not honey.  At the end of the contract they do splits and sell bees.  This keeps the box numbers down.  They may go to another contract and start the process all over.  It seems natural that honey comes from hives that are not moved.  On warm days the comb is not going to fare well bouncing on the back of a flat bed.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline little john

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2017, 07:04:53 am »
Question from downunder,
Why do a lot of US beeks run multiple brood boxes? 

http://chestofbooks.com/animals/bees/History/Chapter-IV-The-Hive-Controversy.html  sheds some light on how multi-brood boxes came to be favoured in the US, in contrast to the single large-sized brood box of the Dadant Hive which came to be favoured in parts of France & Spain. (Dadant being originally French, of course).
LJ
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Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2017, 07:42:45 am »
Acebird
Our business is honey, we do almond pollinating in August when there is very little honey.
The rest of the year we shift to follow the honey flows. We shift early morning and try to move as 2 boxes, one hive and one super with QX between. Haven't had comb collapse yet.
Our hives only ever run one deep of brood, all 8fr.

LJ needed some other program to open your link?

Offline Bush_84

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2017, 09:27:06 am »
I just personally favor giving the queen as much room as she needs. I used to run three 8 frame deeps on all my hives, but am starting to take a more relaxed approach. The mediocre to weak hives never used the bottom deep, but the strong hives will. So this year I'll run two deeps for the smaller hives and three for the bigger hives that need it.

Also you have to keep in mind our winters. Parts of the US have miserably cold winters. We need 2-3 deeps to allow the bees to store enough for winter.
Keeping bees since 2011.

Also please excuse the typos.  My iPad autocorrect can be brutal.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2017, 09:27:39 am »
Oldbeavo, are you trucking from one coast to the other across the desert?
I think the commercials here run one brood box when they are moving.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2017, 07:39:30 pm »
Acebird
We shift 200 miles to almonds, but most of our honey is collected within 100 miles of home.
If there is a good flow then one trip to put empty super and bee escape, then back next day to bring home the super of honey. Our extraction is done at home.
Not all hives fill at the same pace (wish they would) and so you are back next week to harvest the rest. We run groups of 50 hives but there may be 2 groups at a site if flow is good enough.
Back to one brood box, our good queens will fill a frame totally with brood, two teaspoons of honey in the top corners, and will fill 6 frames like this, even will layout the insides of frames 1 and 8. Very rarely will they lay on the outside of 1 and 8.
These are our best queens where others will use 3/4 or 2/3 of the frame for brood and store honey in the balance. These are not usually our best hives due to not enough bees. Whether these queens would perform better with 2 brood boxes and can have honey around the brood would be interesting.

Offline Jim 134

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Re: Starting to like to 8 frame deeps and mediums, any down side?
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2017, 08:02:38 pm »
I calculate the 8 frame hive to be 4.438 higher than the ten frame hive.  The 8 frame is 8 boxes high and the 10 frame is 7 boxes high and I know you don't have to go over 8 high unless you want bragging rights.

    Nothing to do about bragging. If you want your bees to make honey where I live. You better have six or seven super on. Where the average yield is roughly 200 pounds per hive. If you do not have enough room on. You will slow the bees down. What happens bees can bring in nectar faster than they can evaporate the water.


            BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :smile:
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 08:14:38 pm by Jim 134 »
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/