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Author Topic: Obahmacare  (Read 1925 times)

Online gww

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #80 on: April 01, 2017, 12:09:04 am »
Iddee
We are friends and I feel the same about no resesatation.  My wife has said she is leaving me for 35 years and I told her not to worry cause I am going to die before her and then she will have her freedom.  I don't feel I have too much imput  on rule making and that is why I go from the gut insted of based on study and watching the news 24 hours a day.  I only care enough to know I don't care that much.  Mental exersize is kinda fun though.
I don't want to be your friend but I have to cause you put me off gaurd by offering to send me some foundation for my hives.  Dang it, now I have to like you.
Wishing you the best.
gww

Offline Acebird

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #81 on: April 01, 2017, 08:40:03 am »
Iddee, I really like your attitude.
Gww, I take it your wife doesn't like to argue.  LOL
Brian Cardinal
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Online iddee

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #82 on: April 01, 2017, 09:23:48 am »
Good morning, Ace. No, my wife is the shy, quiet type. She lets me make all the decisions and goes along with them.

Of course, I learned long ago that if I made all decisions in her favor, she would do that.   :wink:

After 49 years as of yesterday, I guess it works. I'm dumb enough to think I'm the boss and she has her way and is happy. :cool:
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #83 on: April 01, 2017, 10:40:35 am »
Good morning, Ace. No, my wife is the shy, quiet type. She lets me make all the decisions and goes along with them.

Of course, I learned long ago that if I made all decisions in her favor, she would do that.   :wink:

After 49 years as of yesterday, I guess it works. I'm dumb enough to think I'm the boss and she has her way and is happy. :cool:
congrats to you and your better half. :cheesy: . I wish my wife would do things that way. :tongue: .  I have a dnr also and believe it or not so did my dad. all the stuff he had done was because the doctors said that with his active life style and the healthness of the rest of his body. when every he had surguries he was always up and walking within three days. we always told him he was mule headed plus the love between him and my mom was somthing to behold. I try to follow his teachings to us as much as I can.


john

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #84 on: April 01, 2017, 09:08:01 pm »
Hops
Of course taxes would be higher if we had single payer health.  However insurance  premiums would be lower cause it would be paid for through taxes.  If the insurance part being cut out adds up to four hundred billion a year and economics is math even with some missing parts that I may not understand then $2000 compared to $5000 might still be a good deal and if britton has issue with there healt care and made it $3000 per person those issues might not be there and it would still be $2000 cheaper then we are doing.  They have better metrics on child mortality and life span is matching ours and our life span is slipping.

Maby we should look at what austraila is doing or maby south korea.

You might as well be paying taxes if you are like micheal bush and kathy and having to pay $15000/$30000 a year anyway.
Cheers
gww
You contradict yourself... "Of course taxes would be higher if we had single payer health.  However insurance  premiums would be lower cause it would be paid for through taxes. "   You acknowledge that a lack of competition causes higher treatment costs, yet say that insurance costs would be lower.  It doesn't work that way.  Insurance premiums would be HIGHER because of a lack of competition!
You will note that Kathy and Michael's rates increased under Obamacare, the Holy Grail of the Demorats.  "OH, they might as well pay higher taxes cuz they pay more now anyway."  Crippled thinking.  Your math is getting worse and worse.

Re-open competition and watch the costs decrease and the quality of care increase.  Get the government out of my medical decisions!
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Online iddee

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #85 on: April 01, 2017, 09:26:08 pm »
 The hospital sends the ins. co. a bill and they scream "too much", we will only pay 70% of that.

The hospital sends the gov. a bill and gets a check quickly for the whole amount.

The next time, the hospital sends the ins. co. a bill for 70% and gets paid. Then they send a bill to the gov. for 120%, since they don't fuss.

All the while, we have to supply the money for both. Only a democrat would think the gov. is cheaper.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Online gww

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #86 on: April 01, 2017, 10:43:23 pm »
Hops
You missread my intent.  Maby the way it was wrote caused that, maby not.  What my above statement said if you use both of the first sentences together is.  You will pay taxes instead of insurance premiums.  You will not have insurance premiums as you wont have medical insurance because you already have it through taxes.  getting rid of insurance middle man save four hundred billion a year.  That is differrent then how you are taking what I wrote to mean.

I did not say no compatition would make medical care go up in my post.  I did not take a position on that.  What I did take a position on was that GB pays $2000 per person for coverage that you indicated was bad coverage.  That we pay $5000 for out insurance.  I then pointed out if $3000 was paid, we would still be cheaper then we are now.  The point in that was that you said the GB people have to bring their own tylonol when they went to see their doctor.  And I say that I bet if they were paying $3000 in GB that the extra money would probly pay for tylonol and take away your argument on how bad their system is and would still be $2000 cheaper then where we are today.

I do not think you are countering what I am saying but more just changing what I am saying to make you case.

I do understand your position though and had the same position back in the eighties when it came up under clinton.  I just know more and feel differrently now due to where we are and seeing the insurance doing the thing to people that was used a a scare tactic to make us not want single payer.  Now I just think of the insurance providers as an unneeded third wheel that is taking money that could be put to better use.

Could and do bad things happen with any system or program, Yes, just like they happend before health care even became an issue.  Poeple take from any system if they can enrich themselve and so no matter what direction we go, there will allways be problims with it that need addressed.  I don't trust the government or the insurance man.
Cheers
gww

Online iddee

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #87 on: April 01, 2017, 10:53:59 pm »
I trust the private business man that sells a hammer for 7.00 a lot more than I trust the gov. that pays 6000.00 for the same hammer.
The gov. has no business in healthcare pricing and paying at all. In malpractice and euthanasia, yes. The money end, NO.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Online gww

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #88 on: April 01, 2017, 11:40:44 pm »
Iddee
I am not even going to ask how you feel about the $25,000 toilet then :cool:.
Cheers
gww

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #89 on: April 02, 2017, 03:55:07 pm »
I think I proved my point.
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Offline kathyp

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #90 on: April 30, 2017, 10:33:01 am »
Quote
You will pay taxes instead of insurance premiums.  You will not have insurance premiums as you wont have medical insurance because you already have it through taxes.  getting rid of insurance middle man save four hundred billion a year.

A couple of problems with this.  1.  47% of the population pays no federal income tax now, so they will not be paying for single payer either.  that means the 53% of the population will carry the load.  That brings us to 2.  When has anything run by the federal government been either cost effective or efficient? 

We already pay for care for the elderly and the poor.  What is the advantage to the rest of us that we go to single payer?  Medicare and Medicaid are already inefficient and expensive.  Is it just a matter of "fairness" that we all share in the misery?
?Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.?


― George Orwell, 1984

Offline Captain776

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #91 on: April 30, 2017, 10:19:05 pm »
Until you live outside USA, you don't really know how screwed up and corrupt the medical system really is.
For example, if I need a Ventolin inhaler in USA, it will be a minimum of 150-175 dollars by the time I have a 75-125 dollar office visit to get a prescription, then go to CVS and wait 1-4 hrs for it go be filled and pay the required 15-35 dollar co-pay.
In Thailand, China, Kuwait, Cambodia, Egypt, Saudi, Laos, you walk in and buy the exact same Ventolin inhaler for 8 dollars and walk out the door, can be done in less than a minute.
The hospitals here in Thailand are medical expat hospitals which means people come from all over the world to have procedures here because most are 70% less than USA, UK, CANADA, AUSTRALIA.
THE  hospitals are fully ISO certified with state of the art equipment.
I had surgery at Al Salam hospital while stationed in Kuwait. The place was immaculate very organized, when I walked in the door, everything was sorted, I gave them a 1400 dollar deposit, had surgery that afternoon and was released the next morning, went downstairs, got my change and out the door, a very good experience.
Many of the doctors are Western trained.
My Pain Management doctor was trained in Canada and practiced there 15 yrs before returning to Thailand. My Spine Specialist went to Tufts Medical in Boston and practiced in USA forty years before returning here at age 75, he looks 55. The point is, very good hospitals and doctors at 1/2 yo 3/4 less than USA and other countries.
Office visit here is 25-35 dollars.
I can also walk in the drug store and buy anything except narcotics over the counter.
Amoxicillin, Prednisone, Wafarin, any antibiotic,...........all the things you need a prescription fir in other countries.
Bought my first NUC April 7, 2016.
Like all you when you first started, I am fascinated with beginning Beekeeping and trying to learn all I can.
I retired May 2015 and have added this to my short list of hobbies.

Offline kathyp

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #92 on: April 30, 2017, 10:48:07 pm »
Quote
Until you live outside USA, you don't really know how screwed up and corrupt the medical system really is.

and you pay cash which has been my point all along.  If you get rid of the idea that everything has to be paid by insurance and people pay for things out of pocket not only is cost brought down, but people have more choices. 

Many of our restrictions are because people demand that things be safe.  Enter the FDA and the lawyers. Regulations make things more expensive.  Suing over everything makes medical care more expensive. 

Lower costs can be had in lots of places when people are willing to pay cash.  Lower costs can be had here when people are willing to pay cash.  Medical insurance should be thought of the same way you think of homeowners or car insurance.  You use it for the big stuff and pay for the other stuff out of pocket....but the American people now believe that someone else should pay.  It has to be insurance, your boss, or the taxpayer, but god forbid people be responsible for their own care.
?Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.?


― George Orwell, 1984

Offline Captain776

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #93 on: April 30, 2017, 11:23:54 pm »
Just to be clear, yes, I paid cash here, then submit and get reimbursed.
For major things like my knee replacement, Aetna sends a letter of guarantee to the hospital for 85% and then when discharged, I pay directly the 15% I would have paid anyways and out the door, nothing further to do, no forms, nothing.

I am 64 and on Disabilit's so they automatically give you Medicare but it does me no good outside USA.
I have insurance here through a major international carrier. It us a Major Medical policy that pays up to 5 Million BHAT (144,500 USD / year) and it only cost 240 USD A month.
For me to keep Aetna on my own......1400 USD per month. Which is 16,800 a year.
Fortunately, my Thai wife gets 100% FREE medical so I only need insure myself.
Bought my first NUC April 7, 2016.
Like all you when you first started, I am fascinated with beginning Beekeeping and trying to learn all I can.
I retired May 2015 and have added this to my short list of hobbies.

Offline beecanbee

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #94 on: May 20, 2017, 07:06:31 am »
Wow ? I read every post and enjoyed the debate.  I have already posted an opinion on US healthcare insurance in two other threads, so won`t repeat that post here.  (I looked for a way to delete a post but didn`t find it.)

Japan is single payer and paying the national premium is mandatory.  Don`t pay, and it will be taken from any bank account you may have.  If you truly cannot pay, coverage is free.  And it is the same coverage.  Private top-up insurance is available thru insurance companies to cover co-pays (30% in my case, drops to 20% for older people), private room charges, etc.

My recent PET-CT cost was about US$900, so I paid the $300.  But I also have a monthly cap on medical expenses (tied to income) of about US$600.  I am retired now, so no income, thus have the lowest monthly cap.

Of course when I was working and receiving top 1%er income, I paid dearly for the insurance ? but it was a tax, and fair in that everybody paid - no exceptions, but I did pay more than most.  If I recall correctly, I paid about US$15k/year to cover my family.

I was always healthy, never smoked, when younger did drink to excess on occasion, and have `good genes` in that my relatives all live into their late 90s with very few health problems.  But, as luck would have it, I had my first chemo treatment 2 days ago for bladder cancer, and boy-o-boy, am I ever glad that I am on this system and not the US insurance system.  Doing the research, it seems that our medical care (procedures, medications, etc.) is the same for me as those at first-line US hospitals (Mayo, etc.).  A big difference is that neither doctors nor insurance companies get super rich here.
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