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Author Topic: Obahmacare  (Read 1923 times)

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2017, 01:32:26 pm »
>I had company insurance also but all the copay changes and insurance changes anc coverage changes started reflecting what you are saying way back in the late 90s and just seemed to get worse and was definatly getting worse way before the affordable care was passed. 

Insurance has slowly but steadily gone up for decades.  But not at the rate since "The Affordable Care Act".  In just a few years things have changed more than all the decades before that for me...
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2017, 02:51:22 pm »
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I personally think that the actual inflation cost of health care has slowed since the affordable care act cause it was going up drastically before it was passed also.

Lol.  what difference does that make?  Have you had to pay an insurance premium lately?  If cost of care is not going up, but you are forced to pay for insurance that is skyrocketing in cost....or course, this only matters to people who are paying their own way.....
?Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.?


― George Orwell, 1984

Offline kathyp

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2017, 02:54:12 pm »
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I was so sick of it I tried to just buy my own, but I couldn't negotiate as good of a price as a company can negotiate.

Yup and this is one of the problems to be solved.  The individual market is expensive in most places but again, no real market forces.  If everyone was free to shop for the best price instead of being stuck with what is mandated or what the business offers, there would be competition. 
?Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.?


― George Orwell, 1984

Offline gww

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2017, 03:05:16 pm »
Micheal
I do not for one minute discount your personal experiance.  I had read (not experianced) that the actual cost of care had went up but not at the rate it was going up just prior to passage of affordable care act.  I also am hearing from the mass media that there are problim spots more in a state by state action then across the board.  Some states are just really bad like alaska for $900 a month compared to a differrent state (don't remember which) that was at $200 per month.

I figure any system they have is going to have things that need fixed.  I find it interesting that the republicans can't fix it and the democrate influince might be enough to fix some things but they are afraid of helping trump cause it might hurt them and empower the republicans in the next election.  I guess thier fear that no good deed goes unpunished is going to stop anything good from happenning.  I think that is probly been my experiance.  All the things that both sides run on can't be fixed or they have nothing left as a reason to vote for them but all the stupid stuff that money can buy still gets some of it done.  I aint got the money to buy votes and so move along with low expectations.
Cheers
gww

Kathy
Quote
Lol.  what difference does that make?  Have you had to pay an insurance premium lately?  If cost of care is not going up, but you are forced to pay for insurance that is skyrocketing in cost....or course, this only matters to people who are paying their own way.....

Which is why if they went to a single pay and used the money saved from getting rid of the insurance middle man, I would have no regrett that the insurance man was gone.
Cheers
gww

Offline kathyp

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2017, 07:57:18 pm »
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Which is why if they went to a single pay and used the money saved from getting rid of the insurance middle man, I would have no regrett that the insurance man was gone.

That would be a legit position if everyone were paying for insurance and then everyone just paid a tax for single payer.  Instead we have a massive expansion of Medicaid, more of the population aging, a massive insurance subsidy program, and only a few of us actually buying our insurance either on our own or through our work.  We have only about 125 million of over 300 million paying into the federal pot.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/245347/total-medicaid-enrollment-since-1966/

http://kff.org/health-reform/state-indicator/total-monthly-medicaid-and-chip-enrollment/?currentTimeframe=0&selectedRows=%7B%22nested%22:%7B%22all%22:%7B%7D%7D,%22wrapups%22:%7B%22united-states%22:%7B%7D%7D%7D&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

?Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.?


― George Orwell, 1984

Offline gww

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2017, 08:15:07 pm »
Kathy
Quote
We have only about 125 million of over 300 million paying into the federal pot.

But that does not change no matter what and it is being paid for by the 125 million now with an insurance middle man getting his share by raising premiums or that 125 million paying a tax with out that middle man skimming off the top.  It is the guys with insurance that is keeping the stucture treating every one as it is now.
Cheers
gww

Offline kathyp

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2017, 08:17:07 pm »
Oh, I was going to give a couple of examples of cost for those of us who pay for insurance.  My brother is paying 30 thousand a year for his family.  If you ignore the deductible, each of his 3 uses of care last year was 10,000 dollars.  We pay about 15,000 for ours which is very good, but my husband has not been to a doc in years, and I go once a year if they make me. 

yes, this is higher than before ACA by a lot!
?Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.?


― George Orwell, 1984

Offline gww

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2017, 08:49:45 pm »
Kathy
It takes a lot of will power to pay for insurance.  That is why some just take thier chances with out it.  It is pretty hard to get by and prioritize what is most important in life when you don't have enough money but to barely get by.  Most have to run from emergency to emergency and sometimes it is hard to decide if you are getting your moneys worth.  I have the same problim with how much I pay for home insurance but can't afford to lose my house.  I do understand the pain that is being felt by the needing of healt insurance.  I am like your husband and have been very lucky that I have been heathy enough to not have to go to the doctor very many times in my life.  Some times I might should have but have lived through most of it anyway.  I did get burned one time and spend ten days in the hospital to the tune of about $60,000.  I did have insurance provied by my work thankfully.

I don't really know the answers but know that it has gotten worse then it used to be and so my view is single pay probly won't be any worse then it is now.  I look at all the arguements against it and think to myself that all those things are happening now with out it and so don't really see the risk.  I do wonder if we had had it, if I might have tried a differrent career than working on a factory floor even though my wage was probly also better by working where I did.

Cheers
gww

Offline Acebird

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2017, 09:25:59 am »
My brother is paying 30 thousand a year for his family.

Before I feel sorry for him what does he make?  There are a lot of people that don't make 30K in a year.  Why is he paying 30 and I am paying 6?  It doesn't sound like we are talking about the ACA.

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this is higher than before ACA by a lot!
Before the ACA there were some financial problems with our country's economy.  It was something like the great depression.  A very large part of the country lost their jobs due to the greedy top.  They also lost their health care.  Unemployment has gone down since this event but that is just a number not nearly as important as the level of income that went down.  People had to take jobs that paid less then half of what they were making before.  Trump is never going to bring these jobs back by feeding the rich and pissing away tax payers money on absolute foolishness.  The rise in healthcare is not because of welfare.  It is because the greedy are getting greedier and the supporting middle class is getting smaller at the same time the population is suffering from poor health care partly due to the American dream being lost.

Profit minded people are great for running Corporate America because Corporate America doesn't care who they hurt.  Profit minded people are the absolute worse for running a country because it matters who you hurt.  "Who knew healthcare was so complicated".  Ignorance on steroids.
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Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2017, 12:36:15 pm »
so you're claiming the ACA fixed the economy??? thanks for the chuckle, I needed it.

Lower unemployment rates during O's admin are due as much to a change in calculation methods as in any job "creation" by Obama.  Lower wages are due to an expansion of "service" jobs, while higher paying manufacturing jobs left the country in response to O's policies.

Government control of the healthcare industry has lead to widespread cost increases in every aspect of the industry.  Not the least of which are increases in cost of prescriptions.  When over-regulation limits competition, the natural result is higher prices.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2017, 12:52:17 pm »
I wish I had paid more attention in Economics 101, but I still learned more about how the economy really works than the majority of my peers.  Well, that was 50 years ago and I've paid attention to economics since college.  Maybe Acebird and some others would benefit from a basic economics textbook. 
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Offline gww

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2017, 01:16:49 pm »
Hops
Quote
Lower unemployment rates during O's admin are due as much to a change in calculation methods as in any job "creation" by Obama.  Lower wages are due to an expansion of "service" jobs, while higher paying manufacturing jobs left the country in response to O's policies.

Government control of the healthcare industry has lead to widespread cost increases in every aspect of the industry.  Not the least of which are increases in cost of prescriptions.  When over-regulation limits competition, the natural result is higher prices.

I would say that the exodus of manufacturing was almost finnished by the time obama was elected with the biggest being in the bush administration.  I do agree that low paying sevice jobs is a poor replacement. 

Hops and dallas.

I still say as far as economics go, $2000 per person in european country compared to $5000 per person here and out health metrics slipping in comparison the thiers makes a pretty good economic arguement even with limmited compitition of the ones with the $2000 per person.

Economics is math is it not?
Cheers
gww

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #52 on: March 29, 2017, 02:37:38 pm »
"Economics is math, is it not?"

Not really.  It involves some math, but so does carpentry.  I'd suggest you read some of Ludwig von Mises and Hayek's writings, and the Austrian school of economics in general.  It's mostly theoretical, but not that hard to read.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Acebird

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #53 on: March 29, 2017, 06:23:25 pm »
so you're claiming the ACA fixed the economy???
No I did not say that not even close.  As much as I disagreed with the policy of balling out the banks and wall street the economy came back.  Obama was handed a pile of crap and for some reason it got better under his reign.
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Lower unemployment rates during O's admin are due as much to a change in calculation methods as in any job "creation" by Obama.  Lower wages are due to an expansion of "service" jobs, while higher paying manufacturing jobs left the country in response to O's policies.
I agree with gww this is in complete error.
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Government control of the healthcare industry has lead to widespread cost increases in every aspect of the industry.  Not the least of which are increases in cost of prescriptions. 
You have no clue what the regulations were and are on pharmaceuticals.  They haven't changed much since the creation of the FDA.  What really generates horrendous costs for drugs is patents and profit margins.
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Offline gww

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #54 on: March 29, 2017, 07:01:48 pm »
Ace
Quote
You have no clue what the regulations were and are on pharmaceuticals.  They haven't changed much since the creation of the FDA.  What really generates horrendous costs for drugs is patents and profit margins.

This was not improved opon when the medicare perscription plan was passed under bush because the pharmaceuticals helped write the bill and it is put in the bill that the goverment can not bargin on the drug pricing and try to get a better deal.
Cheers
gww

Offline Acebird

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2017, 08:52:43 pm »
gww, I didn't say politics weren't involved.  I said regulation didn't change much.  What a company has to go through to bring a drug to market hasn't changed much.  The reward is a patent.  If it is a life saving drug, something to do with cancer, aids, dementia, or Alzheimer or Parkinson, Ebola, or bird flue then the sky is the limit on price.  What is best for the population has no bearing.  Stop with the patent BS.  Make the technology available to all manufacturers.  Give the inventors a tax break.  Make that the incentive but don't curtail the science.  There are many ways to motivate companies and people.  Profit is only one way and not the best way for some advances.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2017, 09:17:48 pm »
"Progessives" can always find a way to take cash from somebody else's pocket.  What I'd like is to get $20 million for a few weeks' or months' work, like some of the movies actors, or $120 million for five seasons with a sports team. Wouldn't that be neat?  No patent applications or anything involved.
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Offline Lancej

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #57 on: March 29, 2017, 10:06:30 pm »
I wouldn't swap our health care in Australia for what you guys have, all Aussies get basic medical care. If we get sick we are all covered, if we want a private room etc you pay, simple

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #58 on: March 29, 2017, 10:27:16 pm »
I wouldn't swap our health care in Australia for what you guys have, all Aussies get basic medical care. If we get sick we are all covered, if we want a private room etc you pay, simple

what is the cost for additional testing and care. what if disease was missed diagnosed and treatment not given in timely manner? what costs then?

Offline Acebird

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2017, 10:27:17 pm »
What I'd like is to get $20 million for a few weeks' or months' work, like some of the movies actors, or $120 million for five seasons with a sports team. Wouldn't that be neat?
What is stopping you.?  They have proved it can be done.  Some have even come from the ghetto.  Sure thing is sour grapes won't make it happen.
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