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Author Topic: Brood Box  (Read 1014 times)

Offline Flyzone13

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Brood Box
« on: December 01, 2016, 04:23:01 pm »
Can someone explain to me the reason for having more than one Brood box/deep super before adding honey supers?  Keep in mind I am very new to the extent that I am just gathering as much information as I can before I start building.  I have been watching a lot of videos and I have seen it done several different ways. Thanks

Online gww

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Re: Brood Box
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2016, 04:48:49 pm »
It would help to answer any question if you were to put your location up so that people could see where you are located.  Lots of answers would be location spicific because how warm or cold it gets has a lot to do with how hives are managed.  I am sure laying room has something to do with it and also the fact that bigger hives are more efficiant in what they have as excess bees to use to gether stores for more then just keeping up with babies.  I am too new to go into much detail myself.
Good luck
gww

Offline Flyzone13

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Re: Brood Box
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2016, 05:12:28 pm »
I am in central Minnesota, if that helps.


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Offline cao

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Re: Brood Box
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2016, 07:19:37 pm »
In the northern areas (and Minnesota definitely qualifies), the bees need that much space to store enough honey to survive the winter.  The honey supers are considered extra so they can be installed or removed when needed without adversely affecting the colony.  I assume that most in your area use 2 deeps for the brood area.  In my neck of the woods I can get by with a little less.  Hope this helps.  :happy:

Offline rwlaw

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Re: Brood Box
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2016, 07:45:09 pm »
Another thing to consider is a double deep (or equivalent) is needed for swarm control. Start crowding them to a single deep brood box and you'll have nonstop bees in the trees.
Can't ever say that bk'n ain't a learning experience!

Offline Flyzone13

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Re: Brood Box
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2016, 10:27:01 pm »
Excellent info everyone, thanks for your help.


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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Brood Box
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2016, 11:14:55 pm »
I am in central Minnesota, if that helps.


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Put it in your profile, so that the next time you have questions we don't have to ask.  Are you near the Twin Cities?  marla Spivak at the Univ. of MN is a great resource.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Acebird

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Re: Brood Box
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2016, 09:23:45 am »
I have been watching a lot of videos and I have seen it done several different ways. Thanks

Pretty much sums up beekeeping.  If you do not use an excluder the bees will expand or contract the brood chamber to what they want.  If you get multiple hives you will see that colonies make different choices.  The more you do the more you will have to do right at the right time.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Brood Box
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2016, 09:27:13 am »
>Can someone explain to me the reason for having more than one Brood box/deep super before adding honey supers?

Because L.L. Langstroth miscalculated.
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Offline Rurification

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Re: Brood Box
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2016, 03:53:39 pm »
Michael - that made me laugh.   

So much of what we do is just because someone else did it that way first.   I think my biggest challenge has been to do it the 'right way' [a bunch of different 'right ways'], then figure out what really works for me, here, and then do it that way.   [Which, no doubt, someones will tell me is the WRONG way.]
Robin Edmundson
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Beekeeping since 2012

Offline little john

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Re: Brood Box
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2016, 07:19:22 am »

You may find info at the following links enlightening as to the events which took place in the early days of modern beekeeping (i.e. immediately post-Langstroth), and which have shaped the principal hive types in use today.

It became very much a commercial battle between advocates of large volume hives on the one hand, and those favouring the 'Contraction System' (which we would these days call an 'expandable' system) on the other - each hive type being championed by those with both financial as well as intellectual vested interests.

http://chestofbooks.com/animals/bees/History/Chapter-IV-The-Hive-Controversy.html
http://chestofbooks.com/animals/bees/History/The-Contraction-System.html
http://chestofbooks.com/animals/bees/History/The-Contraction-System-Continued.html

LJ
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Brood Box
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2016, 08:55:43 am »
Pellet's history is good, but he assumes the reader understands a lot of concepts that were around at the time such as reversible frames or reversible boxes (flipping the combs upside down for swarm control) and also the idea of a cut-down (contraction) vs unlimted brood nest ideas.  At the time Pellet wrote it, a cut down split was a very common manipulation since virtually everyone was doing comb honey.

Everything is an oversimplification but here is mine:

Langstroth thought one ten frame deep box was enough for a queen to lay in and a colony to overwinter in.  He was wrong as far as the North, but his hive caught on anyway and people made up for it by using two ten frame deep boxes in the North.  Dadant was correct about how much room the queen needed, at least in the North, but his hive had less versatility.  It was the right size for the North, but not for the South.  Also, it just didn't catch on.  My personal favorite of the time is the Heddon hive.  He had the idea of managing bees by the box rather than the frame, but he was also obsessed by things like reversible frames, which were a waste in my opinion and probably contributed to why his hive did not catch on.  The Dadant deep with 12 frames has the disadvantage of giving you little control over space and space management, in my opinion, is one of the most important aspects of beekeeping.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesspace.htm

I the end part of the reason for the differences were locality.  If you look at how it shook out in the end, most northern states use two Langstroth deeps for the brood chamber.  In the middle, places like Tennessee and North Carolina, they usually use one deep and a shallow or one deep and a medium.  In the deep south, they usually use one deep for the brood chamber.  So part of the problem is that there isn't a "right" answer as to how big the brood nest should be everywhere.  There may be a "right" answer for a particular locality, but really I don't think there is even that.  A small struggling colony struggles more when they have too much space compared to a strong established colony in the same locality...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslocality.htm

I find it interesting how many beekeepers who were practicing the "contraction" method who were full time successful beekeepers.  G. M. Doolittle, C.C. Miller, W.Z. Hutchinson...

My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin