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Author Topic: State your political leanings.  (Read 3320 times)

Offline iddee

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Re: State your political leanings.
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2021, 05:06:29 am »
"Open borders - yes (only practical in a free society). Love your neighbor as you would want them to love you.""

So this is what you wish for the U.S. today?
Good to know before we read your future posts.

"""For absolutely no plausible political or humane purpose (other than to admit millions more illegal voters), the administration has opened the southern border while failing to be able to offer one truthful answer to questions about its border policy.

The United States is now directly complicit with the Mexican drug and slave gangs in opening up access to the country and is deliberately importing unskilled labor to undermine the standard of living of American lower-income citizens."""
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Kathyp

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Re: State your political leanings.
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2021, 12:08:10 pm »
probably posted in here before, but still a constitutional conservative.  That makes me pretty much a libertarian.

The open borders thing above is interesting and there are a lot of people who think it's a nice idea.  Whenever there is a nice idea, there ought to be a rush to understand why we do things as we do them and what the new, nice idea, would bring.

People are tribal.  They always have been and always will be.  Tribes came together when they had interests and needs in common.  Borders were placed.  Countries were formed. 

Countries survive if they can do combinations of fending off conquerers, maintaining common goals/allegiances, or under totalitarian control.

There are a lot of free countries that have maintained and provided high standards of living for their people and have done it in large part by keeping "other" out.  Scandinavian countries, Japan, Saudi Arabia...

Another way is to do as the Old Roman empire did, and as the UK did for a long time.  You have a collection of tribes that are left to pretty much run their own thing but must pay taxes to the empire and swear allegiance to the empire.  The Brits followed the Roman model of local civil service with administrators from the empire overseeing.  One of the reasons the former Brit colonies were mostly successful is that they learned government and administration before they were cut loose.

The US used some of this as a template.  A lite federal government with a few defined responsibilities and all else left to the states so that people could form the tribe they wanted. 

Why are the people of countries that are "democracies" flooding into this country?  It's a one word answer.
What is the responsibility of OUR government to our tribes?
What is the end result if we fail to protect our tribes?
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: State your political leanings.
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2021, 08:55:44 am »

People are tribal.  They always have been and always will be.  Tribes came together when they had interests and needs in common.  Borders were placed.  Countries were formed. 

Where in the world has this ever happened?  Borders are placed by conquers paying no attention to the culture of the people living on the land.
The United States is a perfect example.  Both as the oppressed and the oppressor.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: State your political leanings.
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2021, 01:13:48 pm »
Quote
Where in the world has this ever happened?  Borders are placed by conquers paying no attention to the culture of the people living on the land.

True, but I am talking about the original concept of a country.  Early man had none.  Later tribes combined to create them. 

War does redraw boundaries often.  So did the exploration and conquest of lands.  Oppressor and opressed are subjective designations.  Why, for instance, are we told that we oppressed native Americans in North America or the natives of central and South America, but no one calls the tribes that were here before us oppressors.  There were certainly tribes that conquered others, kidnapped and enslaved, and murdered. They did it for land, wealth, etc.  The fact that they lost eventually to Europeans is meaningless.  Someone always wins and someone always loses.  Do we bemoan the fact that the Germans lost ww1 and 2, or that the Japanese were defeated? 

My point was that there has to be an allegiance to some ideal in order for diverse tribes to hang together.  We have made the words patriotism and nationalism nasty words recently, but they are not.  If you are going to have a diverse population then you need something that keeps them together.  otherwise, you need to keep your population homogenous so that they are one tribe that naturally hangs together.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: State your political leanings.
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2021, 01:57:47 pm »
probably posted in here before, but still a constitutional conservative.  That makes me pretty much a libertarian.

The open borders thing above is interesting and there are a lot of people who think it's a nice idea.  Whenever there is a nice idea, there ought to be a rush to understand why we do things as we do them and what the new, nice idea, would bring.

People are tribal.  They always have been and always will be.  Tribes came together when they had interests and needs in common.  Borders were placed.  Countries were formed. 

Countries survive if they can do combinations of fending off conquerers, maintaining common goals/allegiances, or under totalitarian control.

There are a lot of free countries that have maintained and provided high standards of living for their people and have done it in large part by keeping "other" out.  Scandinavian countries, Japan, Saudi Arabia...

Another way is to do as the Old Roman empire did, and as the UK did for a long time.  You have a collection of tribes that are left to pretty much run their own thing but must pay taxes to the empire and swear allegiance to the empire.  The Brits followed the Roman model of local civil service with administrators from the empire overseeing.  One of the reasons the former Brit colonies were mostly successful is that they learned government and administration before they were cut loose.

The US used some of this as a template.  A lite federal government with a few defined responsibilities and all else left to the states so that people could form the tribe they wanted. 

Why are the people of countries that are "democracies" flooding into this country?  It's a one word answer.
What is the responsibility of OUR government to our tribes?
What is the end result if we fail to protect our tribes?
Anarchy, the survival of the fittest/strongest. "what's yours is mine and what's mine is my own". Now, where have I heard that before?
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

Offline Kathyp

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Re: State your political leanings.
« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2021, 04:34:24 pm »
Quote
Anarchy, the survival of the fittest/strongest. "what's yours is mine and what's mine is my own". Now, where have I heard that before?

If that was your one word for why supposedly democratic countries are failing, that is not the word.

The word is "corruption".  All of these countries have natural resources, tourism resources, and human resources that should make them wealthy.  Because these governments are corrupt and the people keep voting in corruption, they are failed states.  Not our fault.  Not our problem.  We now embrace a level of corruption in our immigration system by allowing illegals to come in and stay.  Corruption spreads.  Allow a little and soon you have a lot.

Anarchy is the absence of government.  What's yours is mine and what's mine is my own can be a description of a number of political positions.  Among them, democracy and socialism/communism.  Democracy is mob rule and socialism takes from anyone they wish and gives to anyone they wish, while the elite are protected and made wealthy. 

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: State your political leanings.
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2021, 04:57:49 am »
Quote
Anarchy, the survival of the fittest/strongest. "what's yours is mine and what's mine is my own". Now, where have I heard that before?

If that was your one word for why supposedly democratic countries are failing, that is not the word.

The word is "corruption".  All of these countries have natural resources, tourism resources, and human resources that should make them wealthy.  Because these governments are corrupt and the people keep voting in corruption, they are failed states.  Not our fault.  Not our problem.  We now embrace a level of corruption in our immigration system by allowing illegals to come in and stay.  Corruption spreads.  Allow a little and soon you have a lot.

Anarchy is the absence of government.  What's yours is mine and what's mine is my own can be a description of a number of political positions.  Among them, democracy and socialism/communism.  Democracy is mob rule and socialism takes from anyone they wish and gives to anyone they wish, while the elite are protected and made wealthy.
The Anarchy I was referring to was "What is the end result if we fail to protect our tribes? not why people move to other countries. The usual movement is economic no matter how it is dressed up.
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

Offline Kathyp

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Re: State your political leanings.
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2021, 06:49:54 pm »
Quote
The Anarchy I was referring to was "What is the end result if we fail to protect our tribes? not why people move to other countries. The usual movement is economic no matter how it is dressed up.

Economics is a good reason to move.  It's one of the main reasons people have come here over the last couple of 100 years.  It's why my family came.  I have no problem with people joining the tribe or tribes.  I have a problem with people breaking into the country illegally, failing to assimilate, negatively impacting the tribes both economically and in quality of life.  I have a really big problem with some of our politicians encouraging illegal behavior because sanctioning illegal behavior IS corruption.  Sanctioned corruption is what has destroyed those other countries and will destroy ours.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville