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Author Topic: Pretty good read  (Read 387 times)


Offline kathyp

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Re: Pretty good read
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2016, 11:17:28 pm »
It's actually true of a lot of crimes, especially violent crimes.  It was under BC that we got the stiffer sentences that everyone is crying about now.  They worked. 

I would argue that enough federal dollars go to states for various security purposes.  Probably more than should go to them.  The amount of money for strictly policing issues has stayed pretty stable.  It is homeland security money that has gone down.  right after 9/11 there was a huge push to update police departments so that they could join in investigations.  Radios, computers, and that kind of stuff made some sense.  Up armored vehicles...not as much.  I get it if a terrorism response team needs them, but the Podunk Junction police probably don't.  Much of this is surplus, so purchase is not costly, but upkeep  and training is. 

The actual policing is not expensive.  Jailing the miscreant is.  There are some things that can be done.  1.  privatize prisons and allow more prison industry.  2. do something about the legal issues that seem to surround every arrest.  Just as malpractice suits drive up medical cost, wrongful arrest, abuse, etc. lawsuits drive up the cost of policing.  3.  run more Sharif Joe type prisons.    Want TV?  work for it.  A balanced meal can be cheaply made.  Garden for your veggies.  Nothing wrong with a prison chicken coop. 

We tend to think we need to throw money at every problem and the problems never get solved.  Thinking a bit out of the box can save money and help fix problems. 
One could not learn history from architecture any more than one could learn it from books. Statues, inscriptions, memorial stones, the names of streets ? anything that might throw light upon the past had been systematically altered. (1.8.85)

George Orwell  "1984"

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Pretty good read
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2016, 02:56:50 pm »
Stiffer sentences may actually NOT be the answer.  I believe certainty of punishment is more effective than long prison sentences.  After six months in prison, a convict has adjusted to prison life and can function there as well as or better than outside. 

If a kid steals a candy bar and gets away with it, he'll steal another.  Then he'll up the ante and steal something bigger.  Before long he steals a car for a joy ride, dumps it and walks away.  Then he starts stealing cars and selling them to a chop shop.  And so on and so on.

If a kid steals a candy bar and is caught and punished -- not heavy punishment, but something that lets him know there are consequences, and every time he steals something this happens, before long he gets the idea it's not getting him anywhere.  He stops stealing or beating people up or whatever.

The problem is we'd have to live in a police state for this to work to stop every potential criminal from going there. 

Back when I practiced criminal Law, a few of my clients were sent to prison for 60-day revaluations
after conviction.  None of my clients ever got long sentences, but as a result of the 60 days in that
 regimented, brutal situation, they all straightened out -- at least, that's the way it appeared to me
and the authorities.


In one client's case, I did too good a job representing him.  He was a businessman who seemed to
always be on the financial edge and when he was short, he'd write a check.  Usually, the check was written on one of his defunct businesses accounts, so it wasn't difficult for the police to find him.  He managed to avoid a long prison sentence because he was a very charming individual -- a good con man, I guess.  So it wasn't just my lawyering skills that saved him.  He was good at conning prison psychologists, social workers and judges into believing he would stop doing stupid things.

Anyway, Kathy, we could argue about stiff sentences versus certainty of apprehension and which serves as a deterrent to the criminal mind, but in the long run maybe neither has much effect on a determined warped mind.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline kathyp

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Re: Pretty good read
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2016, 03:00:37 pm »
Quote
Anyway, Kathy, we could argue about stiff sentences versus certainty of apprehension and which serves as a deterrent to the criminal mind, but in the long run maybe neither has much effect on a determined warped mind.

It won't impact the mentally ill or the terrorist.  After laws were passed requiring stiffer penalties for crimes done with firearms, the rate of armed crimes went down.  Perhaps the threat is enough.  I'll also agree that better policing has helped bring down violent crime.  In those cases where threats and policing fail, I am in favor of tossing people in and throwing away the key....understanding that I mean this to apply to violent crimes and weapons crimes...not candy bar theft.   :grin:
One could not learn history from architecture any more than one could learn it from books. Statues, inscriptions, memorial stones, the names of streets ? anything that might throw light upon the past had been systematically altered. (1.8.85)

George Orwell  "1984"

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Pretty good read
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2016, 03:12:48 pm »
Yes, I agree.  And if we look at the Ferguson effect on crime stats, and abondonment of stop and frisk, and the end of applying the broken windows policy, it's easy to see that the criminal element is quick to take advantage of the weakening of law enforcment. 

Criminals are always on the cutting edge.  When ATMs first came out, the word I got from prison was that they were all trying to figure a way to get the mney.  It was like they were brainstorming the problem as a community project.

Terrorists today seem to be on the cutting edge and the good guys have their hands tied because of the public fear the the NSA or somebody is listening to everything said on every  cell phone in the world. 
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944