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Author Topic: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?  (Read 3483 times)

Offline PhilK

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How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« on: March 06, 2016, 08:19:12 pm »
G'day,

We requeened both of our hives 9 days ago. One of the hives (A) we requeened because they were a lot more pissy than Hive B. They would fly up off the frames as soon as we were in the broodbox, and buzz aroundhead level, bump into veil etc. A few will follow you a couple of metres as well.

We bought two queens that were supposed to be a gentle strain and requeened. Did an inspection yesterday (8 days after new queens were introduced) Hive B is nice and calm, couldn't find the queen but did find eggs. Hive A were OK but when we got in to the brood box they again started flying up off the frames with their head buzzing behaviour. We saw the queen on the second frame we looked at (was running around rapidly) and some eggs but stopped the inspection as soon as we saw her as the bees were upset.

When requeening a pissy hive with a gentler queen, does the change happened immediately or do the more ornery bees have to die off? Is it possible the queen we got is not as gentle as thought or will it just take time?

Offline gww

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2016, 08:44:45 pm »
I think they have to die off.
gww

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2016, 08:56:57 pm »
Phill,
They usually calm down pretty quickly. I had a hot hive swarm. Caught the swarm but even as a swarm they were nasty. When I poured them I a swarm box they stung me a dozen times in my head. I just left the lid off the box and let them leave. The queen and hive that took over the old hive was as calm as the rest of my hives.
Are you using heave leather gloves?
If so they are probably full if stingers and the pheromones are adjitating the bees every time you put your hands in the hives.
I recommend you try using neoprene gloves. You are able to feel the bees that get under your gloves before you squash them. The bees have a hard time stinging through then because they cannot hold on to them to sting.
Good luck.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline PhilK

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2016, 09:49:46 pm »
...Are you using heave leather gloves?
If so they are probably full if stingers and the pheromones are adjitating the bees every time you put your hands in the hives.
I recommend you try using neoprene gloves. You are able to feel the bees that get under your gloves before you squash them. The bees have a hard time stinging through then because they cannot hold on to them to sting.
Good luck.
Jim
No, I use nitrile gloves (thin latex) to get better dexterity. Yesterday after we rpelaced the brood combs and they were flying off the frames and buzzing around I put the heavy gloves on just to reassemble the hive boxes.

So do you think I've requeened with an equally defensive queen then?

Offline gww

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2016, 09:58:29 pm »
I have no experiance but have read that the offspring of the old queen need to die off.  Try agian in about 6 weeks and see what they are like.  Any preditors or robbing going on that would make them mad?  I don't have bees yet and have only read a lot of forum interaction so take it for what it is worth being second hand info.
Cheers
gww

Offline Colobee

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2016, 12:45:11 am »
As the "hot" offspring die off (as much as ~6 weeks), the temperament undergoes the complete change, but pinching the hot queen and replacing her with a gentle one can have almost immediate positive results. Some "hot" hives don't take as readily to a new queen, so saving Mz heat, in a small nuc, might be good insurance.
The bees usually fix my mistakes

Offline PhilK

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2016, 02:07:12 am »
...Some "hot" hives don't take as readily to a new queen, so saving Mz heat, in a small nuc, might be good insurance.
Little late for that, she's had a vodka bath!
I saw the new queen (marked with a blue dot) in the hive and there were eggs present, so I assume they have taken to her OK!

Offline Colobee

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2016, 11:31:51 am »
Good for you - and them! Have they calmed at all? Blue dot = a 2015 queen ???
The bees usually fix my mistakes

Offline PhilK

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2016, 08:18:58 pm »
Good for you - and them! Have they calmed at all? Blue dot = a 2015 queen ???
One queen has a white dot (she is 2 weeks older) and the other a blue.. both are actually 2016 queens but my breeder's white pen broke so the second queen got the blue!

Offline Lancej

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2016, 08:15:29 am »
I have to replace a queen very quickly, our season is coming to an end, over the past few weeks one hive has become nasty. I opened it up today (did the other hives first) and they started, by the time I pulled the second frame hundreds of bees were either bumping or crawling on me looking for a way in. This is the only hive that normally stings me. I put the full suit on for these guys. It was a bit fiery before, but since the queen was superseded it's become a real pain. Have to walk for a few hundred yards  then get in the Ute with the suit on, open a window and let the bees out. Must walk a circle,  if i walk back the same way i just pick the bees up again. Seems like they wait for me. What can I say, time for an execution.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2016, 01:20:56 pm »
It could be as short as a few days, for reasons I cannot explain, but the bees in the hive won't be replaced by the new queens offspring for six weeks...
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Offline texanbelchers

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2016, 03:36:12 pm »
I have to replace a queen very quickly, our season is coming to an end, over the past few weeks one hive has become nasty. I opened it up today (did the other hives first) and they started, by the time I pulled the second frame hundreds of bees were either bumping or crawling on me looking for a way in. This is the only hive that normally stings me. I put the full suit on for these guys. It was a bit fiery before, but since the queen was superseded it's become a real pain. Have to walk for a few hundred yards  then get in the Ute with the suit on, open a window and let the bees out. Must walk a circle,  if i walk back the same way i just pick the bees up again. Seems like they wait for me. What can I say, time for an execution.

I didn't know you had the Africanized bee influence down there...  :)

If you have to really quickly, ax the queen and combine them with another hive or two.  Or, just shake them out and let them beg their way in somewhere, but that could be a ton of angry bees flying.  Then you can make a new hive when you get a queen.

Offline PhilK

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2016, 07:07:18 pm »
It could be as short as a few days, for reasons I cannot explain, but the bees in the hive won't be replaced by the new queens offspring for six weeks...
So Michael do you recommend I wait 6 weeks before definitively thinking that the new queen is also pissy?

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2016, 10:42:24 am »
Well, half the bees will be replaced in three weeks, I would think there would be some difference, though half the bees being angry will set off the other half, so six weeks might be best.  Meanwhile, though, you can split them and make them weak, which always calms them down... and requeen the splits.

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Offline Lancej

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2016, 05:11:26 am »
Update from a few weeks ago.  Decided to split the nasty hive, new queen in the strong half and old queen in the weaker half. Didn't work out that way,  broke down the hive into three boxes, one super and 2 brood boxes, was going to split brood and resources and place the new queen in the original position.  Started pulling frames while looking for the queen, found her on about the 2nd frame I pulled, she gave me just enough time to spot her before she took off, straight up into the sky and out of sight. Finished the split, shook extra bee's into the new queen's hive, made sure the queen less hive had eggs and lava and left it in the original position. Checked both hives a few times over the last few weeks, queen came back and is laying,  still a little nasty but not as bad, new hive is doing really well and quiet already with two different coloured bees.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2016, 09:51:07 am »
Are you going to replace the old queen? Remember the smaller the hive the easier/nicer the hive. The bigger they get the meaner they get. It will be a lot easier to requeen now.
Since she likes to fly off, you might want to put a queen excluder under the bottom box or on your entrance to keep her out if she does it again. They only problem would bee if she lands in one of the boxes while you are closing up.
Jim
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Offline Lancej

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2016, 10:29:07 am »
Hi Jim, I think that bee knew what I was thinking "your getting a vodka bath". The queen I got for the split was the last lot for the season, come spring and the old queen will be learning how to swim. I will hopefully either make a few queens or buy some in spring, my season here has only days left, I will packing them down next weekend and moving them to a warmer area. My first season keeping bees and I got over 50kg (110lb) honey and all the hives have plenty of stores for winter,  which is better than I expected.  Lance

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2016, 02:00:51 pm »
Vance,
Sounds like you are doing rear well. When you do remove that queen, bee sure to have a good jar with alcohol or vodka ready so that you can you her pheromones for your swarm traps.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline sc-bee

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2016, 05:39:37 am »
Phill,
They usually calm down pretty quickly. I had a hot hive swarm. Caught the swarm but even as a swarm they were nasty. When I poured them I a swarm box they stung me a dozen times in my head. I just left the lid off the box and let them leave. The queen and hive that took over the old hive was as calm as the rest of my hives.
Are you using heave leather gloves?
If so they are probably full if stingers and the pheromones are adjitating the bees every time you put your hands in the hives.
I recommend you try using neoprene gloves. You are able to feel the bees that get under your gloves before you squash them. The bees have a hard time stinging through then because they cannot hold on to them to sting.
Good luck.
Jim

I am tired of picking stingers out of my fat fingers  :shocked: What kind of neoprene gloves Jim? The kind that get so hot and sweaty you can poor sweat out of them?  Like a chemical gloves or dish washing gloves? Like nitriles?  Lots of different neoprene..
John 3:16

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: How Long For A New Queen To Calm A Hot Hive?
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2016, 06:41:08 am »
The ones I am talking about are purple and usually come in a box of 100 gloves.
All rubber gloves are going to cause sweating it the high heat and humidity we have .
I only used them once for a very hot hive. In just a few minutes my hands were soaked.
Normally if the bees get aggressive, I just re-smoke my hands.
Jim
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 06:52:04 am by sawdstmakr »
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

 

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