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Author Topic: Green tip 5.56 has been banned, We're all felons.  (Read 3241 times)

Offline jvalentour

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Green tip 5.56 has been banned, We're all felons.
« on: March 06, 2015, 06:38:20 pm »
This article from Townhall states that the ATF in the  2015 Regulation Guild has banned the Green Tip 5.56 (M855).  The ammo has been removed from it's previous exemption from being considered armor piercing and is now considered armor piercing.  The change took place earlier this year before comment was permitted by the public.  The article goes on to state that reversing the language of the regulations will be difficult. 

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/06/exclusive-atf-has-already-banned-common-at15-green-tip-ammunition-n1966761

The ATF changed the unilaterally. 

Offline beemaster

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Re: Green tip 5.56 has been banned, We're all felons.
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2015, 08:04:12 pm »
I'm not an AR kinda guy, but I surely feel your pain. The Feds are obviously targeting ARs not ammo. So where does that stop.

The question is though, if PISTOL (and I use that lightly - none look like a pistol to me) would the Feds had the same argument about penetrating ammo? Would it be easier to BAN "pistol style guns" that use this ammo and save the ammo?

Neither is a good option, I know. But if ARs are America's choice platform, didn't the pistol style guns shooting "Green Tips" and other .556 & .223 open the door for the Feds to apply existing laws to literally make millions of ARs useless without ammo OR of course, people scramble for ammo and get price gouged. I haven't searched Gunbroker yet, but I'm sure that will be the first place prices will sky-rocket - followed by the more known Bud's Gunshop and J&Gsales sites.

I modestly collect WW2 rifles, getting a SVT40 (10 round magazine semi-auto that shoots the powerful 7.62X54R) STUPIDLY I didn't buy one a year ago BEFORE the Russian Embargo, now finding an SVT40 under $1000 is hard to find, and a nice one $1500-$2000.

PS - if anyone has an SVT40 they want to sell, PM me please

So where is this going? Practically any cartridge under the right circumstance can be called armor piercing and there lies the point of where will all this go? Scary stuff.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Green tip 5.56 has been banned, We're all felons.
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2015, 08:48:54 am »
I remember back when the "cop killer bullets" were the big thing the anti-gun people were going after.  The cops in Denver went after a guy who was holed up with a .30-06 and they all put on two vests (in the days before the ceramic plates).  The guy shot and the bullet went through the two vests on the front of the front cop, the two vests on the back, the two vests on the front of the second cop, the two vests on the back, through the car door on the cop car through the car and through the other door on the other side.  It was standard deer ammo, not full metal jacket and not "armor piercing".  Interestingly the Geneva convention requires armies to use full metal jackets and bans expanding bullets and the anti-gun people want to ban full metal jackets and require expanding bullets...  well actually they want to ban all of them, but any excuse will do...
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Offline Maggiesdad

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Re: Green tip 5.56 has been banned, We're all felons.
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2015, 07:20:58 pm »
If you like your ammo, you can keep it...


for now.  :tongue:

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Green tip 5.56 has been banned, We're all felons.
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2015, 02:20:24 am »
I think a Harris County, Texas, member of Congress killed it. 
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Green tip 5.56 has been banned, We're all felons.
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2015, 04:59:35 pm »
More than 80,000 comments and still open for more comments through 3/18, but ATF announced on 3/10 it would not move forward with proposal to ban the ammo.  It's not dead, but they tabled it -- maybe to revive it when they think nobody is looking.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline OldMech

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Re: Green tip 5.56 has been banned, We're all felons.
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2015, 10:50:10 am »
I remember back when the "cop killer bullets" were the big thing the anti-gun people were going after.  The cops in Denver went after a guy who was holed up with a .30-06 and they all put on two vests (in the days before the ceramic plates).  The guy shot and the bullet went through the two vests on the front of the front cop, the two vests on the back, the two vests on the front of the second cop, the two vests on the back, through the car door on the cop car through the car and through the other door on the other side.  It was standard deer ammo, not full metal jacket and not "armor piercing".  Interestingly the Geneva convention requires armies to use full metal jackets and bans expanding bullets and the anti-gun people want to ban full metal jackets and require expanding bullets...  well actually they want to ban all of them, but any excuse will do...


    That is exactly right.   When I ran my shop, the police I dealt with, working on their guns, or cleaning them etc ALL agreed, they would rather face an AR or an AK any day of the week, than face a standard bolt action hunting rifle in 30-06..  You can STILL buy fmj surplus ammo.. I have alloy cased bullets that will penetrate an engine block from mil surplus lots I have bought in the past. 
   I have fired a lot of ammunition at hardened steel plates. Even .50 browning rounds..  standard soft tip .50 cal rounds did not penetrate the steel plate as far as the 30-06 metal jacketed bullets did. the .50's left a divit in the hardened steel, but did not "penetrate"....      I have black tip 30--06 ammo, but it is not to shoot in my Garand, I have it to display, with the orange tip cartridges, ball ammo, stripper clips etc etc..    I suppose, if there was ever a dire emergency I could break the glass and pull the Garand out of the display..  That old Springfield Rifle is more gun than most people realize.
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Re: Green tip 5.56 has been banned, We're all felons.
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2015, 10:43:51 pm »
I think the hold might be a snake in the grass. The extra time might be used to see what other "penetrating bullets they can add to the list - thus killing off even more guns from citizen who have registered (either through required FFL like me) or NICS like everyone else as far as I know.

I think I mentioned the vests used (newest and best vest) and the damage it did thru the footpounds the bullet did on the vest. This was tested on modeling clay (I later found out) brought to the right temperature to match the human torso.

Even if the bullet did not penetrate, the transfer of foot pounds left baseball size holes in the clay - to me, well beyond breaking ribs and getting the wind knocked out of you as on much of TV and movies. I'm talking energy to pulverize vital organs.

My point, it wouldn't take much to reword this bill to go beyond a single round - I'm sure there are cases they could us to prove that nearly any bullet could kill an officer, especially repeated shots - and let's face it, from videos I have seen, multiple shots to the best vests on the market could take anyone down and out.



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Offline jayj200

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Re: Green tip 5.56 has been banned, We're all felons.
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2015, 08:41:40 am »
I think a Harris County, Texas, member of Congress killed it. 

who was that? wants shake hands

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Re: Green tip 5.56 has been banned, We're all felons.
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2015, 09:41:21 am »
It is just another rouse of the sheeple.    They have been very deliberate in the use of the vague term "armor piercing",  intentionally not saying "body armor".  For the general none educated population that get all their opinions from the evening news,  "armor piercing"  is equated to tanks and heavy military vehicles and of course there is no need for a civilian to own such ammo.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Green tip 5.56 has been banned, We're all felons.
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2015, 10:30:31 am »
The point is that a typical deer round in .30-06 will penetrate a 1/4" steel plate... so is that "armor piercing"?  The anti gunners like to act like the pro gun people are being unreasonable when in reality the anti gunners either understand nothing about guns or they know they can outlaw everything if they are vague enough.
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Offline Maggiesdad

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Re: Green tip 5.56 has been banned, We're all felons.
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2015, 07:42:06 pm »
My guess would be they want to make the steel core go away first, then ban lead bcuz it's sooooooooo bad. Bad lead. Bad Bad.

Don't know why G d even put it on the earth in the first place. Nasty people shooting things... :tongue:

Offline Joe D

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Re: Green tip 5.56 has been banned, We're all felons.
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2015, 09:47:53 pm »
My old 742 -06 shoots the black talons just fine.  I have a few rounds for all the guns that I own.  They are all getting expensive though, and the 22's sometimes are hard to find.   Luckily I had a few thousand rounds of them.  I try not to use over one bullet per kill.  I like to shoot my 300 WM loaded with extended range shells, faster and more knock down at 400 yards than a regular 300 round at 300 yards.




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