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Author Topic: Tap for getting honey out of hive?  (Read 18543 times)

Offline D Coates

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Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« on: February 18, 2015, 10:07:22 am »
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/02/17/tap-honey-like-beer-with-revolutionary-hive-filter-invention/?intcmp=obmod_ffo&intcmp=obnetwork  I had my sister-in-law send me this.  No idea of how it works, or if it actually works. 
Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 10:13:15 am »
The product is real. I was sent one box worth of the frames to test and
have seen it in operation and in person. I thought it was impossible
when I first saw a video. I actually wondered if it was a spoof or if
it was real. But after seeing how it works and watching them do one
frame in the open live on skype while I could see the entire frame and
talk to them and after they sent me a box worth of them to test, I can
assure you it works. My test of it so far is too small and over too
short of a time to be sure what I think of it in practice, but I can't
imagine that I'm going to find too many disadvantages. I'm not sure how
I will manage my hives using them as it changes several things I have
always done. First, I run all eight frame mediums and these are deeps,
so I'll have to buy some deeps (which I already did). Second, it makes
a hive much more static in size when you can empty the combs without
even opening the hive really. No need to stack the supers up so high
when you can just drain them periodically without having to clean up the
extractor and all the equipment and the kitchen every time. Just
draining it into a bucket eliminates all of that mess. The queen won't
lay in them because they are too deep so you don't need an excluder
(which I don't use, but some people do). You don't have to run the bees
out to harvest so you eliminate all of that part of harvesting as well.
In recent years I've had all the same size boxes and I try to leave them
honey for winter. This may change my view of some of how I determine
what to leave them since these are deeper combs and can't be used for
brood I don't think I want them to cluster in them over winter. So I'll
have to work out the details of how I will use them as far as when to
put them on, take them off, drain them, how many mediums to have on
below them etc. In other words, I'm pretty sure I'll be using them, it
will just be too useful not to, but exactly how that impacts my total
system I'm not really sure, until I've tried to work those details out.

When I first saw it I thought of this story from "Mastering the Art of
Beekeeping" by Ormond and Harry Aebi:

" 'I want to buy one of your beehives' he said. 'I want you to bring it
to me tomorrow at eleven in the morning and I want you to set it up on
top of a ten foot pole that I'll have set up by that time. And I want
you to come over every Thursday afternoon and drain out the honey so
that I can have fresh honey every week.'... 'I can't place a beehive up
on a pole like that,' I said. 'And even if I could, I couldn't work it
to take off the honey.' 'Why not? I shall expect you to install a spigot
at the bottom of the hive. All you'll have to do is open it and drain
off the quantity of honey I require.' 'Beehives don't work that way,' I
told him. 'I can't possibly do as you ask.'..."
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Offline D Coates

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 10:29:53 am »
I just noticed you're quoted on there.  ?Mind Blowing...It's not very often something is so revolutionary as to blow my mind...Saving 20% of harvest labor is not trivial, 40% is amazing, 60% is revolutionary. But 95%, that?s Mind Boggling!?
 
I've signed up on their mailing list and they give a whole lot more details once you've done that.  Any idea of what an outfitted super will cost?
Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 10:45:36 am »
I don't know what the cost will be.  They will announce some of this on the 23rd when they post it on KickStarter.  They are just complicated enough that I'm sure they won't be cheap.  :)  But they are amazing.  You can drain all the honey out of the super without even opening the hive.  So you don't have to:

Suit up.
Light the smoker.
Open the hive.
Shake the bees off blow the bees off, or chase the bees off of the combs.
Lift the supers off.
Load the supers up.
Haul the supers to the house.
Uncap the frames.
Extract the frames.
Put the frames back.
Haul the supers back to the yards.
Put the supers back on the hives for cleanup...

Mind blowing...
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline D Coates

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2015, 12:23:23 pm »
Oh I see the value completely.  Considering a normal super will cost +/-$30 with frames, if these are going for $100 to $200 they'll get some serious orders, especially from high end hobbyists who don't have extracting equipment.  I'll still get some to try but fewer the higher the price goes.  If they save me time, work well, and hold up reasonably well this will get some traction for me.  I've got $4-5K invested in extracting equipment that's above my volume all to save time.

As you've used them, how do you clean out the drainage tubes from under the harvested super frames?  Any residual honey in the tubes will eventually crystalize and invariably attract pests.  Are you overwintering in them or are they stored?  How do they store?  Can you take them apart (to possibly repair)?

Sorry about the questions.  This has me quite intrigued.
Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 02:05:11 pm »
>As you've used them, how do you clean out the drainage tubes from under the harvested super frames?

To drain them you pop a cap on each frame and attach a tube.  I made up a manifold with some clear plastic tubing and a piece of PVC pipe and some "GOOP" to seal things.  So if you do that, you pop off the cap on each frame and slip one tube into each frame and the other end coming off of the manifold into the five gallon bucket (through a hole in the lid just big enough for the tube.  When you're done, you do the next hive.  When they are all done, you can do as you like.  I'll probably just wash it in hot water.

>Are you overwintering in them or are they stored?

It's probably best to pull them off so the bees don't cluster in them all winter and then keep the queen from laying because they are too deep and the wrong size cells to lay in.

>How do they store?

I've only had one box of them and only for a few months.  I'm not sure what I will do on a bigger scale.  Right now I have them in a box on top of the cover with a cover on top of that.  You have a point about crystallization, though, the bees can't really get to the place at the bottom where it drains to so that might crystallize.  But then I crystallize all my honey so those probably won't matter to me.

>Can you take them apart (to possibly repair)?

I have not examined them from that point of view.  I can't say at this time.  I may have to get bring one in the house and look closer.  I was in a hurry to get it on the hive when it came and was more interested in how it worked that if I could disassemble it.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Highlander

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2015, 07:57:45 pm »
My wife found the video for this and sent it to me. Fascinating!  Now with the word from Mr. Bush that it is in fact a very real and functional product....WOW!  Can't wait for more info!!  Looking forward to more on your experiences with it.
Cruachan!

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For as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
From The Declaration of Arbroath 1320.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2015, 01:37:30 pm »
Wow, I sure hope they are not too expensive. I need one for every hive I have. One big problem, if I can afford it, I will have a ton of supers left over. Will have to start building new tops and bottoms.
Like I said, I sure hope they are affordable. You could handle a whole lot more hives with these things.
One problem, this would make stealing hives much more likely.
Jim
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2015, 02:58:10 pm »
Cost is of course going to be a mitigating factor in all of this.  Since a HSC fully drawn plastic comb goes for $6.25 a piece and it has no moving parts, I'm guessing it will be an order of magnitude more expensive that that...

I think all the arguments for an extractor apply, of course.  Take into account the savings in labor.  Take into account the total cost (which unfortunately grows with each hive as opposed to an extractor that is a one time cost regardless of the number of hives).  And figure out when it pays for itself.  Another factor I don't know yet is how well they will last.  But I think, anything I can foresee at the moment, that you could powerwash it if it got messed up in the usual ways e.g wax moths, crystallized honey, pollen etc.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Offline D Coates

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2015, 03:34:18 pm »
...HSC fully drawn plastic comb...

I'd never heard of that but a quick Google search and there it is.  http://www.resistantbees.com/plastik_e.html
Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2015, 03:43:03 pm »
Here is some HSC for sale:
http://www.simpsonsbeesupply.com/
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2015, 07:08:23 pm »
Mike,
Do you know if they are selling a complete super or just the frames or both?
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2015, 06:46:09 am »
One question that I still have, are you extracting the honey before the bees cap it or do you wait until they cap it and then they have to uncap it and refill?
If, as it seems like you have to do, and take it before it is capped, do you have to dry the honey?
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline Maggiesdad

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2015, 08:23:37 am »
After cap...

Offline biggraham610

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2015, 02:24:31 pm »
One question that I still have, are you extracting the honey before the bees cap it or do you wait until they cap it and then they have to uncap it and refill?
If, as it seems like you have to do, and take it before it is capped, do you have to dry the honey?
Jim

Jim, Im sure Michael will chime in, I have been following on another thread, I think he said when you do whatever you have to do to drain it, it breaks the caps, then the bees clean it up and start over. G
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Online Dallasbeek

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2015, 03:01:06 pm »
The cells are capped, according to what I've read somewhere, and when you turn something, the honey drains out, you close it back up, the bees sense that there are caps over empty cells, they uncap and repair, fill with honey and recap. 

So to anthropomorphize them, they say, "gee whiz!  What happened to all our honey?  Oh, well, back to square one, girls." :grin:
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline biggraham610

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2015, 04:18:45 pm »
The cells are capped, according to what I've read somewhere, and when you turn something, the honey drains out, you close it back up, the bees sense that there are caps over empty cells, they uncap and repair, fill with honey and recap. 

So to anthropomorphize them, they say, "gee whiz!  What happened to all our honey?  Oh, well, back to square one, girls." :grin:

Yep, I think that is more accurate. G
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2015, 06:06:05 pm »
>Do you know if they are selling a complete super or just the frames or both?

I don't know.  They sent me just the frames.  My guess is that is what they will be selling.

>One question that I still have, are you extracting the honey before the bees cap it or do you wait until they cap it and then they have to uncap it and refill?

The idea they were showing me, and which I duplicated, was a box where you have a window on the side so you can see when the outside frame is capped.  Since bees tend to cap the outside last, it's a fairly good indicator that the rest is capped.  After it's empty in a day or so they figure that out and uncap and refill it.

>If, as it seems like you have to do, and take it before it is capped, do you have to dry the honey?

So far my experience with the product is pretty limited.  I got one box full mid summer.  But I think the outside frame being capped is a good indicator.  Considering the current cost of a refractometer, it might be worth getting one to be sure.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Offline rober

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2015, 06:24:14 pm »
where were the bees in the video? those pancakes would have had bees as well as honey on them under normal circumstances. when I'm extracting they stalk the extracting area within seconds when I start uncapping frames.

Online Dallasbeek

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Re: Tap for getting honey out of hive?
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2015, 09:38:05 pm »
Man, you mean you extract where the bees can get to your area?
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944