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Author Topic: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ  (Read 5273 times)


Offline Michael Bush

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2015, 01:27:03 pm »
I hope he asks for a jury trial and I hope they find him innocent.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2015, 05:44:31 pm »
First mistake was giving permission to search.  But some policemen use intimidation as a primary public relations tool, I guess.  And there's that idea that you're not doing anything illegal, so go ahead and say yes to a search.  Nonsense!  Make 'em work for the evidence.  Make them get a warrant.  Where's probable cause? 
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2015, 12:40:11 am »
>First mistake was giving permission to search.

Agreed.  I would have refused and if pressed for why, I'd say, "what good are civil rights if you don't exercise them?"
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2015, 01:31:06 am »
>First mistake was giving permission to search.

Agreed.  I would have refused and if pressed for why, I'd say, "what good are civil rights if you don't exercise them?"

BRAVO!  Good post Michael.
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Offline jvalentour

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 10:21:22 pm »
I can't believe they are ballistics testing.  Seriously, for what?  The gun was used in a crime?  When?  1800?
What a bunch of fools!

Offline hjon71

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2015, 10:07:48 pm »
Quote
What a bunch of fools!

You got that right!
Quite difficult matters can be explained even to a slow-witted man, if only he has not already adopted a wrong opinion about them; but the simplest things cannot be made clear even to a very intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he already knows, and knows indubitably, the truth of the matter under consideration. -Leo Tolstoy

Offline beemaster

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2015, 07:22:29 pm »
There would not have been an issue if: he held a valid firearms license and stowed it in the trunk as the law requires.

This is in the eyes of the law no different than me having an unloaded Glock in my glove box with reloader kit in the trunk. I disagree with the law, but abide by it.

fact is, we cannot carry loaded magazine in our car, even when packed separate from a weapon which is also packed separate from the weapon. The laws are foolish and sadly I'll likely never see any for of a carry gun in my life-time.

But as long as you separate all ammo from all magazines, clips or weapons and keep them separated in out trunk in different containers  you are allowed to take the DIRECTLY to the range and then DIRECTLY home -ANY deviation in your course (such as pick up a friend to go shooting with) is a felony So you better ake sure you have enough gas in your car, or expect up to 5 years in jail for this type of offense.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2015, 11:28:12 pm »
I could put a loaded rifle in a rifle rack in plain sight and drive anywhere but Omaha in Nebraska... as long as it isn't deer season.  If it's deer season the game warden might fine me...
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Offline jvalentour

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2015, 10:17:04 am »
Beemaster, I may have misread the article, but, I don't think the gun was loaded.  I do not recall a reference to it being loaded. 

Even if it is a gun, it was from the 1700's.  Not something you can load easily even if a ball and powder were in the car somewhere.

Would it even be considered a weapon if it could not be fired?  From what I read, the owner considered it an antique. 

As to the laws requiring guns and loads being in separate compartments, for the record, I think they are reasonable, more so for city folk.

Offline beemaster

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2015, 12:39:49 am »
Yes JV - it is a improperly stowed weapon under NJ law.

1) no loaded weapon can be in a vehicle
2) no loaded magazine can be in a vehicle
3) no weapon can be within reach of the driver or passengers unless in a locked case
4) all weapons must be stowed in a case separated from any ammo
5) if a vehicle is in the car, it must be on the way to or from a gun range or sporting event
6) the shortest driving route must be used and there can be no stops other than stop signs or traffic lights

No.6 literally means if you are to go shooting with someone else, you must meet them at the range. And can't go to theither gun owners home after until you return your/their firearms to their home first.

But as an example, my unloaded Glock 19 is no different than an 18th century antique pistol in that glove box. Both would have to be stowed in the truck or a LOCKED CASE if the vehicle has no trunk.

Also, no other state gun licenses are recognized by NJ - so you are committing a crime by driving through NJ unless you applied at least 6 months prior for a travelers permit WHICH only allows you to drive through the state NOT to stay here with the weapon.

Welcome to the wonderful state of NJ
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2015, 08:40:31 am »
Generally you don't shoot antique firearms.  If you are going to fire a flintlock you don't load it until you are ready to fire it because it's difficult to unload without firing it and black powder doesn't store very well, so you don't carry black powder guns around loaded anyway.  His was not loaded.  In most states it would not even be considered a "firearm" for legal purposes.  Any old pipe is about as dangerous...
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2015, 11:49:27 am »
In most states, but apparently not NJ.  Are we considering Gov. Christie for GOP nomination?  What are his views? Being a product of that state, I wonder.....
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Offline jayj200

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2015, 02:16:43 pm »
he is not as presidential as some others!
would be a continuation of the other dynasties
progresive rhinos suck
I am blunt and don;t care

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2015, 02:44:50 pm »
Jay, what do you think of Jeb Bush?  Go ahead and be blunt.  Was he a good governor? 

I'm done with senators as presidential material.  I think that goes for Congressmen, as well (which would eliminate several like Ryan looking at the race.  Obuma should teach everybody a lesson.  Governors at least have experience in the executive branch.  Rick Perry was a good governor of Texas, but Texas governors have very little real power (and Perry has his well-known baggage).   In Texas, the lieutenant governor carries the power, but not the prestige. 
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Offline beemaster

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2015, 07:40:11 pm »
There was a proposed magazine Decrease from 15 to 10 rounds, but with presidential eyes open wide our Gov Christie decided to the veto the bill which included lots of other things including redefinition of assault rifles.

So I have no doubt he will run, if he passed the bill, his presidential run would be futile. Personally, I believe his anti-marijuana stance will do him great harm. It is legal here for terminal medical use and he is even against that!

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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2015, 07:59:25 pm »
I heard on NPR (no, I'm not a regular listener) today that Christie was making a big deal about something to do with his work with teachers union and there were allegations he had violated a law he helped implement on funding for retirement plans.  He and the teachers union have been at each other's throats for years, so how did he get in bed with them suddenly?  I guess I'm confused about the story, but I'd say he's a bit BENT, if not out and out " un-straight," not to come out and say "crooked."


But what else is new in politics?
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2015, 08:01:36 pm »
Sorry about being off topic, but it is still about draconian acts in NJ, I guess.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline beemaster

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2015, 09:14:29 pm »
I'm a big fan of going off topic - don't sweat that - lol. Yeah, Christie and teachers have hated each other since day one. I'm not fluid as an NPR broadcast :P so I'll leave that alone, but Christie didn't increase state taxes making him popular until people realized he cut local township funding CAUSING the townships to raise THEIR taxes. Then the people weren't so in love with his tax plan.

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Offline jvalentour

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2015, 03:55:32 pm »
Beemaster,
The charges were dropped against the owner of the antique firearm.
I suspect that after ballistics analysis, it could not be fired, therefore, not a weapon.  Kind of like a pizza slice chewed into the shape of a gun is not a gun.
Maybe it was prosecutorial judgement?  (add to your spell check)

I don't recall which state it was reported, police were scanning plates of out of state cars.  Police would pull over cars whose owners were registered CC in their home state.  No cause given to drivers for pulling them over or search of their car.  I think it was Maryland or NJ.  Major legal problems for the out of state driver.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2015, 04:26:51 pm »
So did they return the non-gun, or did the cop keep it to hang on his wall?

And how much did his poor guy have to spend on a lawyer to defend this case that was no case at all?
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Offline troutstalker2

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2015, 12:50:37 pm »
 
This is why I don't live in New Jersey.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2015, 08:22:02 am »
 
This is why I don't live in New Jersey.

This is why I would never live in NJ.
I was born in NJ, not my choice, but I try to avoid ever driving across NJ.
If more people left the state, maybe they would wake up and change their laws. Then again, maybe not.
Jim

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2015, 08:52:02 am »
Years ago, back in the 90's, while still in the Navy, I had a police officer come and talk to the sailors in my department about driving safety over the Christmas holidays. Afterwards during the Q&A, the question came up about being able to have a handgun in the glove compartment. When the officer said it was legal here in Florida, one sailor asked, Loaded? The officers reply was, of course, what good is it if it is not loaded.
That is why I live in Florida.
Florida not only made it easier to have a concealed carry, about 5 years ago the made it illegal for employers to stop you from having a weapon in your car in their parking lots. Many of the companies thought it was their right to search for and if found, you were fired if they found one.
Jim

Offline jayj200

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2015, 09:59:39 am »
Jay, what do you think of Jeb Bush?  Go ahead and be blunt.  Was he a good governor? 

I'm done with senators as presidential material.  I think that goes for Congressmen, as well (which would eliminate several like Ryan looking at the race.  Obuma should teach everybody a lesson.  Governors at least have experience in the executive branch.  Rick Perry was a good governor of Texas, but Texas governors have very little real power (and Perry has his well-known baggage).   In Texas, the lieutenant governor carries the power, but not the prestige. 


I want to believe bush is no where Many Floridans do not like this man. he is progressive. he likes comman core. many things do not fit
I will NEVER AGAIN KNOWINGLY VOTE FOR a democrat for the rest of my life

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2015, 03:21:31 pm »
>I don't recall which state it was reported, police were scanning plates of out of state cars.  Police would pull over cars whose owners were registered CC in their home state.  No cause given to drivers for pulling them over or search of their car.  I think it was Maryland or NJ.  Major legal problems for the out of state driver.

Sounds like legal problems for the states doing this.  What is their probable cause for stopping them?  For searching them?  The fact that they are obeying the laws in their own state is not probable cause to assume they are criminals.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2015, 03:44:52 pm »
"Sounds like legal problems for the states doing this.  What is their probable cause for stopping them?  For searching them?  The fact that they are obeying the laws in their own state is not probable cause to assume they are criminals."

MB, if you're from Florida, let's say, and you're driving to Maine on vacation and you're stopped and harassed in NJ (i think it was), it's unlikely you'll go back to NJ to sue them.  There are some who would, but after being worked over financially by those guys, most of us would just go home and lick our wounds.  That's what they count on, anyway.  That being said, the time to give them a hard time is when they ask permission to search and you say, "why certainly, officer, as soon as you show me your search warrant." 

It's unbelievable how many idiots that are carrying contraband will actually consent to a search of their cars. 
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2015, 05:14:03 pm »
>MB, if you're from Florida, let's say, and you're driving to Maine on vacation and you're stopped and harassed in NJ (i think it was), it's unlikely you'll go back to NJ to sue them.

You are right, of course.  But I probably would...

>That being said, the time to give them a hard time is when they ask permission to search and you say, "why certainly, officer, as soon as you show me your search warrant." 

Agreed. 
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Offline gww

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2015, 08:40:37 pm »
Quote
I will NEVER AGAIN KNOWINGLY VOTE FOR a democrat for the rest of my life
I will never again knowingly vote for a republican in my life.  I don't like "voting for any of them"  but never a republican.
gww

Some democrats voted for conceal and carry in Mo.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2015, 12:10:30 am »
Okay, then.  Don't vote.  Let others decide who will rule your life.  Sheeple will decide for you.
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Offline gww

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2015, 11:59:30 am »
Quote
Okay, then.  Don't vote.  Let others decide who will rule your life.  Sheeple will decide for you.

I will decide, I just won't like my decision very well.
gww

Offline beemaster

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Re: This is an unbelievable story about draconian gun laws in NJ
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2015, 04:09:47 pm »
I really have to mention two things here:

1) NJ does not recognize  any other states gun license and obviously CC permit, with the exception that you apply at least six months in advanced for an "In State Pass" which still does not all you to carry - you are restricted to the laws of residents: weapons stowed away from ammo in sealed cases in the trunk of your vehicle or in LOCKED boxes (not including your glove box) with no magazines or loaded cylinders and as far from the driver as possible.

2) Tell me how I can win in the voting booth if my wife votes for the opposite candidate that I do? we just cancel each other out. We may agree on the "Issues" part of the vote, but candidates are never the same ALTHOUGH neither of have strong party affiliations. The only thing worse than one wasted vote is TWO wasted votes.
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