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Author Topic: And some citizens want to get rid of it...  (Read 3124 times)

Offline Michael Bush

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And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« on: January 22, 2015, 01:18:10 pm »
The description of this forum: "Many Americans forget the words that carved our country into the wondrous land it is today. The Bill of Rights and the power of the branches of government are discussed here."

And yet I am shocked to discover that some citizens of the US want to throw it out as outdated and irrelevant...  Apparently they are either completely ignorant of history or have a complete case of amnesia.  They have not just forgotten "the words that carved our country" they are ready to dispose of them...

I do understand that I have to explain the reason for "freedom of speech" to the Europeans... we wrote that because of their attitudes and actions... but I should not have to explain it to a US citizen... should I?
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Online iddee

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2015, 02:06:21 pm »
Maybe they aren't citizens. Let's face it, there are citizen pretenders all the way to the top.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Snowhitsky

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2015, 06:01:38 pm »
Of course it's irrelevant and outdated! It's about time you kissed and made-up with Lizzie (that's Her Majesty to you rebels). I'm sure if you showed a little contrition, she'd let bygones be bygones and have you back. If you play your cards right I'm sure we could even talk the Canadians into taking you on.

 :tongue:

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2015, 03:17:18 pm »
The description of this forum: "Many Americans forget the words that carved our country into the wondrous land it is today. The Bill of Rights and the power of the branches of government are discussed here."

And yet I am shocked to discover that some citizens of the US want to throw it out as outdated and irrelevant...  Apparently they are either completely ignorant of history or have a complete case of amnesia.  They have not just forgotten "the words that carved our country" they are ready to dispose of them...

I do understand that I have to explain the reason for "freedom of speech" to the Europeans... we wrote that because of their attitudes and actions... but I should not have to explain it to a US citizen... should I?

The scary thing is that our supreme court doesn't seem to understand the basic premise of our constitution... that the government only has certain powers and they are divided between the branches...
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2015, 03:28:29 pm »
>that the government only has certain powers and they are divided between the branches...

And they have forgotten that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people"
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Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2015, 03:30:45 pm »
>that the government only has certain powers and they are divided between the branches...

And they have forgotten that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people"

I couldn't have said that better... It's like the 10th amendment just jumped into your post...
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline kathyp

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2015, 03:58:39 pm »
Quote
The scary thing is that our supreme court doesn't seem to understand the basic premise of our constitution

not just the suprems.  look at what congress has done over the last few years.  they basically ceded power to the executive branch and through the exec, to  the alphabet agencies. 
we have 1/3 of our government that voted "present" for the last 6 years.
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Offline mikecva

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2015, 05:55:35 pm »
If the supreme court would read the constitution and the bill of rights with the intent our founders had in mind, and not the way their political backers or PCer want, we all would be a lot better off. -Mike :angry:
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Offline Silverback

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2015, 05:40:19 am »
Congress gave all powers to the executive branch through the Emergency war powers act and trading with the enemies act as amended in 1933. Every president since has continued the "emergency" through 1974. And it continues today. That act gave ALL power the the president including determining when the emergency is over. 
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2015, 09:03:11 am »
>That act gave ALL power the the president including determining when the emergency is over.

We call that "separation of powers"... ;)
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Offline NeilTheCop

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2015, 12:00:03 pm »
?As government expands, liberty contracts.?
― Ronald Reagan
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints

Offline kathyp

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2015, 10:47:04 am »
Quote
Congress gave all powers to the executive branch through the Emergency war powers act and trading with the enemies act as amended in 1933

The war powers act is not the problem.  Congress has abdicated it's powers in all thing, and failed to act when it's powers have been usurped.  They have done this over a long period of time, but never more so than under this president.  The old guard ends up in leadership and the old guard is lazy.  They are happy to have a job with great perks and retirement and they don't give a good darn about what the people want.  BUT, the people keep putting them back in there, so the people bear the ultimate responsibility. 
One could not learn history from architecture any more than one could learn it from books. Statues, inscriptions, memorial stones, the names of streets ? anything that might throw light upon the past had been systematically altered. (1.8.85)

George Orwell  "1984"

Offline hjon71

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2015, 02:57:05 am »


Quote from: kathyp
BUT, the people keep putting them back in there, so the people bear the ultimate responsibility.
*AH*3rdparty*CHOO*


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Quite difficult matters can be explained even to a slow-witted man, if only he has not already adopted a wrong opinion about them; but the simplest things cannot be made clear even to a very intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he already knows, and knows indubitably, the truth of the matter under consideration. -Leo Tolstoy

Offline NeilTheCop

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2015, 09:20:54 am »
The Government's interpretation of the Constitution has divided this country, quite literally, into two distinct classes of citizens. One class have the protection of most of the Constitution, the other class have less protection.
Let me explain.
I have read the Constitution from start to finish and nowhere does it have words to the effect "This document does not apply to convicted felons or those simply accused of certain crimes". Yet a convicted felon cannot vote or own a firearm. This would mean if these rights can be taken away, then they weren't rights in the first place, and you now have two distinct classes of citizens, one who can vote, but not own a firearm unless the Government have said it's OK, and the other class who can neither vote or own any sort of firearm :shocked:
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2015, 12:35:43 pm »
The Government's interpretation of the Constitution has divided this country, quite literally, into two distinct classes of citizens. One class have the protection of most of the Constitution, the other class have less protection.
Let me explain.
I have read the Constitution from start to finish and nowhere does it have words to the effect "This document does not apply to convicted felons or those simply accused of certain crimes". Yet a convicted felon cannot vote or own a firearm. This would mean if these rights can be taken away, then they weren't rights in the first place, and you now have two distinct classes of citizens, one who can vote, but not own a firearm unless the Government have said it's OK, and the other class who can neither vote or own any sort of firearm :shocked:


And then there are people accused of domestic violence who have their guns taken away.  And I've known some very high-handed judges who take away guns from any man if the divorcing wife asks for it. 

Of course, I practiced criminal law for 8 years and none of my clients were murdered, then changed to family law and in 10 years eight of my clients were murdered (two in one case by her husband).  So maybe there's some justification in the minds of those judges, but that is assuming every man is going to get violent.  That's a pretty big assumption.  But I was handling more than 1,000 divorces a year, so 8 out of 10,000+ is a small percentage, statistically.  Unless you are one of the statistics, that is.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2015, 08:52:25 pm »




Quote from: kathyp
BUT, the people keep putting them back in there, so the people bear the ultimate responsibility.
*AH*3rdparty*CHOO*


In Nevada they do not allow write in ballots. However "none of these" is a choice. In 1998 Hairless Reed won reelection by less than 500 votes. Over 8,000 people voted for none of these. My uncle lived in Reno at the time. He voted for the other choice.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline OldMech

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2015, 02:07:42 am »
And yet I am shocked to discover that some citizens of the US want to throw it out as outdated and irrelevant...  Apparently they are either completely ignorant of history or have a complete case of amnesia.  They have not just forgotten "the words that carved our country" they are ready to dispose of them...


   I didnt read all the posts, but....  As far as I am concerned, those folks are not "citizens" and should be gotten rid of, rather than our constitution etc....   4 generations of servicemen in my family right now, and we will all volunteer to help with that removal.
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2015, 01:15:25 pm »
I'm with you OldMech.
Jim
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Offline derekm

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2015, 10:06:08 am »
your constitution need either changing or reinterpreting so as the CEO to worker wage ratio goes back to ~50 rather the 500 and increasing it is now. Otherwise you will have another revolution and another constitution and a lot of dead. Read this
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014

Revolutions are usually started by the middle classes being made the impoverished class
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: And some citizens want to get rid of it...
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2015, 01:59:05 pm »
The problem is not with the Constitution, it is the people in Washington who ignore it and spit on it. I am talking about congress who far exceeds the bounds of the constitution, the president who defies it and does what ever he wants, and the supreme court who fails to reign in the other two when they are not following it and worse yet, make laws from the bench.
If all laws on the books had to be reviewed and approved based on the constitution, our economy would flourish and employers would have to compete with high salaries to get people to work for them just like they had to do post Reagan era.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain