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Author Topic: Airplanes  (Read 5848 times)

Offline BlueBee

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Airplanes
« on: December 23, 2014, 10:45:55 pm »
So why aren’t the conservatives all up in arms about their beloved 2nd amendment rights being violated every time they travel by air?  I usually hear something about 'one’s cold dead hands' when it comes to their rights being violated.  Clearly if you can’t carry automatic weapons on airlines, your rights are being violated.  Right?  Where is the outrage? 

As an aside, obviously it would be much safer in the friendly skies if everybody on board had guns, right?  Isn’t that the typical NRA logic?  If everybody has a gun, the bad guys will always be gunned down before they can do anything bad.

Offline iddee

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2014, 06:24:38 am »
If a store owner says no guns, it is his right. I just stay out of his store. If no guns are allowed on planes,""or even if they were"", I don't fly. If the government said we had to fly, but couldn't take our guns, then you would see the uproar.
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Offline buzzbee

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2014, 08:25:31 am »
The second amendment is to protect us from the federal government,not the airlines.
As was the rest of the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights was to LIMIT the powers of a central government.

Offline beemaster

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2014, 04:24:36 pm »
All American Air transportation has rules for guns.

Generally they require you to have them checked in and they have a short form usually required - guns and ammo separated in a locked case that only you have a key for. They often limit rounds of ammo to 500 and some limit it to three guns. All have different rule, but they allow you to take your guns with you.

I'm very pro guns, but I don't have an issue with being in a plane with a slim to none chance that anyone had of getting a gun aboard. And if anyone is foolish enough to even pull out a spork, the passengers will make him wish he never flew that day.


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Offline iddee

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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline kathyp

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2014, 05:06:29 pm »
isn't TSA doing a stellar job?   :evil:

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
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Offline buzzbee

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2014, 12:34:13 am »
isn't TSA doing a stellar job?   :evil:


Another acronym agency run amuck. They should have followed Israels model  of air security. They do it quite well. But it also includes profiling. Sadly they wouldn't likely frisk small children.

Offline Richard M

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2014, 01:18:15 am »
So why aren’t the conservatives all up in arms about their beloved 2nd amendment rights being violated every time they travel by air?  I usually hear something about 'one’s cold dead hands' when it comes to their rights being violated.  Clearly if you can’t carry automatic weapons on airlines, your rights are being violated.  Right?  Where is the outrage? 

As an aside, obviously it would be much safer in the friendly skies if everybody on board had guns, right?  Isn’t that the typical NRA logic?  If everybody has a gun, the bad guys will always be gunned down before they can do anything bad.


A more pertinent question would be if it's safe for anyone to be carrying one down the street and onto trains, subways, buses etc, and people don't feel safe without ready access to a gun, then why wouldn't EVERYONE be allowed to take firearms, as many as they want (subject to size & weight of carry on luggage limits) onto a passenger plane?


Offline beemaster

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2014, 03:54:52 am »
I mentioned this after flying to Bud6 - as I went through security at TSA, the man rubbed an alcohol sheet on my hands and passed it through a "sniffer machine" and obviously passed - even though the small carry bag I had was my Glock and ammo bag for the range which I cleaned out less than 2 hours earlier. So neither my hands nor handling my ammo/gun bag through the terminals never transferred enough smell or residue to be detected.

Then we get an opinion disguised as a zing from Down-Under where an entire continent gave up their Rights to arms because of one horrific occurrence - remember our population of 320 million compared to Australia's 22.6 million or roughly 14 times the population in the US with roughly the same land area. Sure we are spread out more than Australia's coastal hugging communities - But we have major cities in the US which have been over run by gangs who have all the guns and good law-abiding people CAN NOT get weapons because it is against their city's ordinances - DON'T you see the foolishness in that? And sadly with all the racial issues of cops killing blacks, the same news media fails to report the black on black crime, much of it is innocent blacks being at the wrong place at the wrong time. But bullets shot from drive-byes kill many people in their own homes. But if an intruder came through the door, the home own would have NOTHING to equal or surpass the thugs killing power. The madness of disarming the good citizens of our cities needs to stop! These GUN FREE CITIES do nothing butarm the gangs and thugs and telling the public, some populations in the millions, that don't worry the police will respond - and yes they will, in time to do a body count to see how many coroner wagons need to come out. Your logic fails HERE. You can not compare your situation to ours, no how, no way!

And crime isn't just in the cities, just read In Cold Blood by Truman Capote - the decades are different, but so are attitudes and I think more than ever before, people value human life less than ever before in our history. And people, countless miles from a police officer in a squad car need to be their own judge on what is life threatening. Only you can judge if the A$$ kicking you are getting is going to knock yo out or possibly kill you. We have tough rule in my state, we need to be in a situation will most likely lead to serious harm or death BEFORE we can discharge our firearms. I have weighed that issue in my mind and because of several issues of health, etc., I will not let anyone get close enough to me to knock me down or out, leaving my wife to try and fend for herself after I'm likely dead - she'll know to shoot at that point, and just from this dead man's point of view, I hope she puts every bullet where it counts until her gun is empty.

But the intruder will not get that chance with me - I will do whatever it takes to stay in control the situation, remember cops haven't even been called yet, we're still in the first minute of the first and only round - I do nothing less than stop the threat, if that is shot that missed and he/they run for the door (at which point I am not being threatened) the battle is over. If I need to take a life to save mine, it is obvious what I need to do.

Tell me please Mr. Down Under, someone comes busting in you home quiety, you are woken seconds before your bedroom door is opened, what do you do? And at this point, don't say "That could never happen hear." because maybe it isn't a gun, but it's something coming in with them to improve odds - don't you think having a handgun or other weapon might just save your life? The only alternative is to lay on the floor while they smash your head in with their boots. I'll gladly use my guns if (God Forbid) the circumstance calls for it.

I know that EVEN when in the right, people who killed another human lives with guilt, sometimes for a life time, although others can justify it and go on with life SINCE they had the ability to protect their family and did so.

There are people who can better give examples than me - I'm just a bit over a year as a gun owner and I live in a nice suburban setting, with four out of six neighbors who have weapons - yes, a militia if needed. No one has more power than those who have it and also know when to use it and importantly - know when NOT to use it.

I can see you their now thinking Americans buy old junker cars so they have something to shoot at for a few decades. Moonshine and guns, and pictures of their hound dog in their wallets. We are vast: no one shares the same story, but everyone has a story. Sure we are doing a good job of keeping terrorism down - minus the fact we don't count immigrants coming in year after year.

A few years ago a plot was uncovered just 15 miles from me, where 6 men were going to get into Fort Dix Army Base, explode tanks and Humvees and kill as many soldiers as possible. A young man in a videotape store (like Blockbusters) was rewinding a tape and stopped it to see terrorist taped planning and exercising to complete this mission - he called the police, they called the base and the terror plot just miles from my home was thwarted.

Last thing that was mentioned: if the government went rogue and called for the armed forces to turn on Americans, then the soldiers would turn on the government - to serve our country is not to protect law makers, but the citizens, their family, their friends, the people. These men and women in the service to their country are the bravest among us and they'll know what the real threat is and handle the situation. I fully agree with that.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2014, 04:07:11 pm »
>So why aren’t the conservatives all up in arms about their beloved 2nd amendment rights being violated every time they travel by air?

As pointed out, the Airlines are free to make whatever rules they want.  The constitution does not limit their right to say what goes on on their airplane.  But yes, it's irritating the crap you have to go through to check a gun and take it anywhere.

>  I usually hear something about 'one’s cold dead hands' when it comes to their rights being violated.  Clearly if you can’t carry automatic weapons on airlines, your rights are being violated.  Right?  Where is the outrage? 

You pretty much can't carry automatic weapons anywhere unless you give your fingerprints, have an FBI background check and pay the $200 federal tax.  This is hardly worth it for a weapon that in my opinion is of dubious use unless you face a charging army where your spraying bullets might actually hit something...  But then maybe you mean "semi-automatic"?
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2014, 11:42:07 pm »
Quote
A more pertinent question would be if it's safe for anyone to be carrying one down the street and onto trains, subways, buses etc, and people don't feel safe without ready access to a gun, then why wouldn't EVERYONE be allowed to take firearms, as many as they want (subject to size & weight of carry on luggage limits) onto a passenger plane?

well, there is that little thing about depressurizing the cabin..... ;)

look, you guys chose to put yourselves into the hand of the government for your protection.  if that's what you want, fine.  it's not what most of us want.  we like having control of our own protection, and our government....although lately, it seems we have lost control of that!  which might be all the more reason, as things fall apart, to be able to protect ourselves and not depend on the government?
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2014, 11:48:21 pm »
>Where is the outrage?

Also, being outraged is very exhausting.  If I stayed outraged about all the violations of the bill of rights by the government I would never get any sleep...
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Offline jayj200

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2014, 10:23:04 am »
I NO FLY

Offline beemaster

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2014, 05:15:52 pm »
Richard

It seems you are trying to provoke someone to go batty over the restrictions we are forced to live by, even though we have gun Rights. Most places where carry is allowed doesn't allow carry into a bar or restaurant with a bar. We do have common scense, which may be restrictions: but alcohol and nothing mixes in my book - but where you can carry into a bar, everyone there knows that and the sheer fact that you are POed enough to want to draw a weapon is usually thwarted by the fact 50 other people in there are also carrying. It has a check and balance system Richard, you just don't have people wanting to use their new guns for destruction as you would have it.

Believe it or not, MOST Americans would rather not die in a hail of bullets. But if a maniac in a mall or movie theater pulls out a weapon (in states where carry is allowed) you won't hear of 40 dead - he might get off a shot or two off, but then half the audience will take him down. To you that sounds like chaos, but to us we see it as saving lives.

I can't carry here, but would if I could. Anything can happen at any time and I think as law abiding citizens we should be allowed to protect ourselves and others using the Rights given to us. Years ago there was a McDonald's where a shooter entered and killed dozens of people - a McDonald's, where kids and parents were just trying to get hot fries and happy meal toys - one girl who lived to tell the story, knew her mom had a carry gun in her purse, but the mother was killed early on and the girl could not get to the gun. If either the mother or daughter could have shot back, dozens could have lived. And these cases come up too frequent, not just schools, but anywhere somebody deranged will walk in and start shooting - and Richard understand, the gun he has is likely not legally owned, it is bought on the street or stolen or taken without a relatives permission, and it is used in a crime against people without the ability to protect themselves: AND you approve this, you think this is OKAY? Then you have the nerve to question our laws and our Rights when YOU chose to give yours away!

Either you get it by now, or you don't. But I'm glad it has worked for you, well so far. Here, anyone who breaks in our home will have a slim chance to change their mind and run, before I make it up for them. And if they are armed, well then at least I have a fighting chance - otherwise I'd be dead when the cops arrive.

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Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2014, 09:54:37 pm »
I drive.  I carry.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2015, 06:07:38 pm »
I think this started out with a ridiculous premise (that we who carry would want to do so on an airplane).  I've been licensed to carry since it became legal in Texas.  Before that, I carried within the more narrow confines of our law, and prior to that I carried as a member of law enforcement, including an unloaded pistol in carry-on luggage on an airplane, but as Beemaster said about carrying in a bar and Kathy mentioned about pressurization, we're not stupid or insane enough to discharge a weapon on an airliner, so why would we carry a loaded gun aboard one?  I have checked rifles a couple of times when going hunting, and they were handled so roughly the scopes were trashed, so after that I drove. 

Our concealed handgun law was passed as a result of a mass muder at a cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, in which a man crashed his truck into the front of the building, then proceeded to shoot and kill 23 people.  Early in his rampage, one woman, Suzanne Hupp, reached into her purse to retrieve her .38 revolver, only to remember she had left it in her vehicle in compliance with Texas law that forbade concealed carry in any public place.  Both her parents were killed in the rampage.  Dr. Hupp then campaigned throughout the country for laws allowing concealed handgun licensing and Texas allowed CHLs starting in 1995.  In 1996, Dr. Hupp was elected to the Texas House of Representatives and was re-elected four times before choosing not to run in 2006. 

Had Dr. Hupp not obeyed the law as it then was written, MAYBE the carnage would have been much less. 

There are misguided, crazy, evil people in the world and they feel driven to kill innocent people.  So long as there are people who suffer the inconvenience of carrying a heavy piece of hardware around "just in case," MAYBE  some lives will be saved.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 06:39:51 pm by Dallasbeek »
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Offline jvalentour

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2015, 12:05:32 am »
I was not aware that only conservatives carried.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2015, 12:12:55 am »
I was not aware that only conservatives carried.

Who said they were?  The difference may be why.
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Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2015, 08:38:23 am »
Who says you can't carry a gun on an airplane? As long as your the pilot nobody will care. Unfortunately I haven't flown in about 6 years. If God wanted us to fly he would have given us more money. I despise flying commercially because of the violation of my rights going through airport security... But they are looking for a lot more than guns. Until 9/11/2001 I never thought there was any reason for airport security. I still feel that way to a point. As soon as we alter our behavior and sacrifice our rights the terrorists win.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2015, 08:56:12 am »
>As soon as we alter our behavior and sacrifice our rights the terrorists win.

Exactly.
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Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2015, 09:01:49 am »
The best way to fight terrorism is to simply not be terrified. As a statistic... being killed by a terrorist is not likely to happen.
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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2015, 01:09:54 pm »
The best way to fight terrorism is to simply not be terrified. As a statistic... being killed by a terrorist is not likely to happen.
That is not what the media wants you think. They try for mass hysteria, like it will happen to us all and we all have to be fearful.
Oh yea, they do that about every story where someone gets hurt.
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Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2015, 03:05:17 pm »
That is not what the media wants you think. They try for mass hysteria, like it will happen to us all and we all have to be fearful.
Oh yea, they do that about every story where someone gets hurt.
Jim

Unfortunately that is true... Bad news sells.
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Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2015, 05:36:35 pm »
I liked this string and think some newer members of the forum might like to comment, but haven't seen it where it was buried.
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Offline Hi-Tech

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Re: Airplanes
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2015, 05:16:13 pm »
Here is my two cents....

I am very pro gun and carry often. However, in my 49 years of walking this earth, I have learned one very important fact. You will never be able to convince someone to change their mind about anything as long as their belief is based on emotion, wishful thinking or just belief. If it isn't a fact based belief, you cannot change their mind, belief or opinion by giving them facts. So, I treat idiot liberals just like I do the terrorist threat, I ignore it. Then, if it gets in my face and forces me deal with it, I will deal with it in such a way as to not have to deal with it again a second time.
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