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Offline 10framer

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breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« on: July 06, 2014, 11:27:58 am »
any thoughts on how to break my squirrel dogs from killing chickens?  i had a 5 foot chain link fence put up to keep the dogs in but for now i'm letting the chickens stay in it and keeping the dogs out.  still missing a young dominique rooster this morning.  i'm going to buy training collars today.  i hate to shock dogs but that seems to be what it's going to take.  the system i'm buying has vibrate and tone modes too.  hopefully those will be enough after the first few jolts.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2014, 01:08:37 pm »
The collar is probably your best bet. I have heard of tying one of the chickens to their collar, close to their neck and making them wear it for a day. I have not tried it yet because our dogs never killed one yet. The important thing is that you are the alpha and insist that they leave them alone. Put the dog on a leash and take it to the chicken. When the dog tries to attack, correct with the leash. The best thing to do is spend a day with the dog on a leash. And keep him under control all day. After that they have no doubt that you are the alpha.
I did this with my daughter's  year old pup who was out of control and she calmed right down that day.
It works real well.
Jim

Offline 10framer

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2014, 01:39:28 pm »
jim, the dog is crafty enough to avoid the chickens if i'm around.  the other dog will move all through them just to get to poop (it must be delicious).  i think instinct kicks in with my male when she stirs them up and they run.  he also likes barred chickens in particular.  barred rocks and dominiques don't fare well around my place.  i think i lost my young dominique rooster to the neighbors cat last night or this morning.  he was missing and the dogs aren't showing any signs of feeling guilty (they tell on themselves).  i did tie a chicken to his collar one day last week and he left them alone for about a week.  i'm finishing up a coop this morning and the chickens are just going to have to be a little crowded until i get my bigger one finished next week.  then the layers move to it.  and then i need to build a rooster pen.  by the way, if anyone is interested in some black ameraucana or french black copper marans young roosters i'm going to have a few. these are supposed to be show quality birds (not my thing but what i was able to get).

Offline LaurieBee

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Re:
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2014, 01:47:21 pm »
The chicken around the neck idea doesn't work well at all. The idea of keeping them on a leash all day working then that way we'll probably be your best bet. As well as electric fencing or the shock collar.

Offline Spear

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2014, 03:02:12 pm »
Well I don't like the shock collar idea at all! It can be a tool to training if understood and used correctly. I did a Google search and found this web site - Looks interesting.
Prey Drive Dog Training

Offline 10framer

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2014, 04:19:09 pm »
these are hunting dogs and i don't really like shock collars either but the system i'm buying has a vibration and tone mode that i hope will actually be enough.  my neighbor has chickens and i don't need these dogs killing them.
i have a 5 foot chain link fence but the female digs out (one more reason for the collar).  i'm not a fan of penning dogs up like a lot of hunters do and only letting them out to hunt.  these dogs sleep inside and pretty much ride with me where ever i go.  i used to think shock collars were cruel but i'd rather give the dogs a couple of nicks than take away the freedom to roam now and then.  i'm on 44 acres way out in the country.
also, i like my chickens to be able to free range most of the day. 

Offline GSF

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2014, 10:05:58 pm »
Dominique or barred rock?

We just had two hens start setting this week. I put about six or eight eggs under each of them, if one of them is a barred rock rooster do you want it?

At one time Dominique was on the endangered species list, back in the 50's I think. Reminds me of what Rush Limbaugh said once; "The best way to get something off the endangered species list is to put it on the menu". Ain't it the truth.
When the law no longer protects you from the corrupt, but protects the corrupt from you - then you know your nation is doomed.

Offline LaurieBee

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Re:
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2014, 02:39:29 am »
I too used to think "shock" collars were cruel until we adopted a dog who ran every chance he got. At home I was able to work with him and the "wait" command, no shock collar. Now I can leave the gate open and he will not cross the line even when I go to the front yard. At the farm he would be gone in an instant leading the youngsters (young shepherd) with him down the highway. We'd have to go after them with the pickup. A little vibration and he's fine. It's similar to the invisible fence. You show him where the line is and they learn not to cross it. They also learn quickly that it's the collar. He knows when he's wearing it.

Offline 10framer

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2014, 11:39:17 am »
gary, i've got both.  i'm down to one dominique hen and a pair of barred rocks right now.  i think something other than my dog got my dominique rooster yesterday (possibly my neighbor even).  i appreciate the offer on the rooster but i'm loaded down.  i'll have some french black copper marans and black ameraucana roosters available in a few months if anyone is looking.  supposed to be show quality birds. 

Offline AliciaH

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2014, 01:07:45 pm »
The Aussie we adopted from the shelter in 2003 was there because he was a runner.  Off leash, he was gone, gone, gone.....

Got him a shock collar with tones.  Worked great!  Used it to teach him to "come" so we could let him off leash in our own yard.  Dogs are smart, they get it figured out pretty quick.

My only comment is to be careful what other electronics in your house make tones like that.  A side effect of our situation is we got a new wireless phone about a year after we stopped using the collar.  Took me a few calls to realize that the tones on the phone matched the collar, which explained why the dog was in my lap every time I used it.  Literally in...my...lap.  You could hear him saying, "Mom, I can't 'come' any better than this!"

Offline 10framer

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2014, 06:51:32 pm »
alicia, i bought this male about 6 months ago.  he had obviously been shocked a lot when i got him.
i put a gps collar on him and the hand held made a tone when he treed or was on point.  it took me a while to understand why he kept coming back to me looking scared every few minutes.
i muted it and put the collar on him one day and let him run while i worked the bees and he finally figured out i wasn't going to fry him.  after that we hunted with it and he did ok.
he was very poorly socialized and nearly starved when i got him.  one thing i don't like about most people that hunt with dogs is the fact that they leave them in a cage most of their lives and only let them out to hunt. 
my big dogs are outside dogs but these dogs are under 30 pounds and coyotes would surely get them eventually if they lived outside all the time.

Online kathyp

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2014, 12:56:21 am »
i use the bark shock collars when i am away from home.  they work great and the dogs figure it out really quickly.  it think fast training that does't really hurt them is better than constant hollering at them or other things people do.

i have friends that train hunting dogs.  the use the shock/tone collars because the dogs only get shocked a couple of times and then the tone is enough.  i have been shocked on mine enough to know that you feel it, but it doesn't hurt. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2014, 12:49:53 pm »
i use the bark shock collars when i am away from home.  they work great and the dogs figure it out really quickly.  it think fast training that does't really hurt them is better than constant hollering at them or other things people do.

i have friends that train hunting dogs.  the use the shock/tone collars because the dogs only get shocked a couple of times and then the tone is enough.  i have been shocked on mine enough to know that you feel it, but it doesn't hurt. 

Doesn't hurt?
Bet you didn't put it around your neck.  :-X  :-D
Jim

Offline Savasci Farms

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2014, 07:54:23 pm »
I your gonna farm, ya gotta get over it. Some need to understand that you do not put animals on the same level as humans. They are beast of burden and we as humans are given "dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" from the Creator.
If it takes a shock collar to stop the killing, then so be it. I will be the "alpha".
We use shock collars on our dogs, goats, and even on a couple horses a time or two and we do not have to deal with the problems that some face because they place beast on the same level as humans and think that animals think, act and feel as humans do...grow up folks.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2014, 12:08:58 am »
Savasci,
I take it you have never had a dog that understands your needs and shows almost all of their emotions on their face. My son has a service dog and they are awesome animals.
Considering that our genetics are more than 90% identical to many primates and almost all mammals look identical in are first phase of our lives. We are really not all that different. That being said, as in all of nature there is a hyarchy to life. Being a farmer, dealing with animals that are five times my weight or are faster or have deadly weapons, you must always be the alpha or they will hurt you.
I really do not think we are that not much different. The biggest difference is the way we communicate and manipulate our environment.
Jim

Offline Savasci Farms

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2014, 10:46:13 pm »
Savasci,
I take it you have never had a dog that understands your needs and shows almost all of their emotions on their face. My son has a service dog and they are awesome animals.
Considering that our genetics are more than 90% identical to many primates and almost all mammals look identical in are first phase of our lives. We are really not all that different. That being said, as in all of nature there is a hyarchy to life. Being a farmer, dealing with animals that are five times my weight or are faster or have deadly weapons, you must always be the alpha or they will hurt you.
I really do not think we are that not much different. The biggest difference is the way we communicate and manipulate our environment.
Jim

 I was born and raised on a working farm, cattle, horses, hogs, row crops, hay cutting, etc. Worked with cattle many years away from our family farm, in the livestock auction area and then on a 18,000 acre cattle ranch where they ran  anywhere from 4,000 - 12,000 head of Brahma cattle at any given time. You want to learn to be alpha, learn it while facing huge 1,200 pound Brahman cows with calves or a 1,800 pound Brahman bulls.
 I have owned many working cow dogs (mostly catahoulas, blue heelers), grand night champion coon dogs (treeing walkers), grand champion squirrel dogs (Barger Stock fiest) and even raised and trained retrievers (labs mostly) for awhile.
 I just helped a friend of mine work 212 cow/calf pairs today and 137 head of calves yesterday. It's hard for most to understand the day to day workings of a real farm and to know how to handle animals in the sense that they were given to us by the Creator. Some live in a fairy tale world it seems.  :roll:


Oh...and I am not the same as a "primate"..you may be... but God did not make me that way, no mater what some crazy man in a white coat says.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 11:10:56 pm by Savasci Farms »

Offline 10framer

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2014, 05:37:00 pm »
bought the collars and haven't really used them.  also haven't lost a chicken since, go figure.
there have been a few studies lately showing that dogs understand human emotion and have similar emotions of their own.  you'd have to be blind not to see it, especially if you've had feist.  these are some of the most sensitive dogs i've ever had.
savasci, you might want to look up the definition of primate. 

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2014, 07:48:05 pm »
When I watched the movie :shock: " Homeward bound" where the had 2dogs and a cat traveling across country to find their owner, I didn't think a dog could show that much emotion and act so loyal to its owner. Then we got Radar, a service dog, and that dog did what they showed in the movie and a lot more.
Jim


"savasci, you might want to look up the definition of primate. "    ;)

Offline Savasci Farms

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2014, 09:26:44 am »
You need to go and read the Bible...like I said you may be like a monkey, but I am not.

Offline GSF

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2014, 09:51:30 pm »
He didn't give you much social skills either.
When the law no longer protects you from the corrupt, but protects the corrupt from you - then you know your nation is doomed.

Offline biggraham610

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2014, 11:30:52 pm »
these are hunting dogs and i don't really like shock collars either but the system i'm buying has a vibration and tone mode that i hope will actually be enough.  my neighbor has chickens and i don't need these dogs killing them.
i have a 5 foot chain link fence but the female digs out (one more reason for the collar).  i'm not a fan of penning dogs up like a lot of hunters do and only letting them out to hunt.  these dogs sleep inside and pretty much ride with me where ever i go.  i used to think shock collars were cruel but i'd rather give the dogs a couple of nicks than take away the freedom to roam now and then.  i'm on 44 acres way out in the country.
also, i like my chickens to be able to free range most of the day. 

Just be sure you follow the instructions. You will likely have to make them feel it, more than a tinge the first time or two, with a dedicated command. Then the tone. Once they get it the tone will do alone. After a while you can just put a small block of wood on the collar and they will think the training collar is still on. Im not sure the sequence, but be sure to research it. I had a friend ruin a couple rabbit dogs by not using the right sequence, but once he figured out the proper way to use the tool, it has become invaluable for dozens of dogs since. Good Luck. G
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Offline 10framer

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2014, 01:13:09 am »
well, my female took her morning run at about 6:15 tuesday and isn't back yet so i'm guessing someone else's chickens are in trouble.  when they find out she's gun shy maybe they'll bring her back.  too bad, she is the one with all the quick's champ blood in her.  she trees as hard as my male that's about two years old and she's only 10 months. 

Offline biggraham610

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2014, 09:12:48 am »
well, my female took her morning run at about 6:15 tuesday and isn't back yet so i'm guessing someone else's chickens are in trouble.  when they find out she's gun shy maybe they'll bring her back.  too bad, she is the one with all the quick's champ blood in her.  she trees as hard as my male that's about two years old and she's only 10 months. 

You may have already said and I may have missed it but what breed are they? G :chop:
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Offline 10framer

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2014, 10:50:16 am »
american treeing feist.  it's not really a breed but a standard, they're squirrel dogs.

Offline biggraham610

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2014, 11:30:59 pm »
Yeah, we have the Mountain Fiest here. I love hunting behind those little dogs. Looks like Im gonna have to borrow a collar too. My gyp decided that a wide open run for 45 min tonite without the inkling of respect for a command was in order. In fairness, I havent given her as much time as I need to, but whoa and come are a must for me and she knows them. Just chose to ignore. Shes on the right in this picture. Llewellin Setter. If the Highway wasnt so close, I could break her at home, but I cant have that activity within 200yds of a major highway. G :chop:



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Offline LaurieBee

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Re:
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2014, 02:20:45 am »
What beauties.

Offline biggraham610

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Re:
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2014, 10:54:54 am »
"The Bees are the Beekeepers"

Offline 10framer

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2014, 10:43:02 pm »
graham, this dog is the grand daughter of quick's champ.  i'm sick about losing her. 
looks like you've got a lot of spaniel blood in those dogs. 

Offline LaurieBee

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« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2014, 01:56:07 am »
I'm sorry for your loss, 10framer. It's never easy losing a good dog.

Offline biggraham610

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2014, 12:31:41 pm »
graham, this dog is the grand daughter of quick's champ.  i'm sick about losing her. 
looks like you've got a lot of spaniel blood in those dogs. 

Man Im sorry 10 framer to hear she hasnt returned. Nothing worse. I will be thinking of you my Friend. My dogs are out of the Awbonnies Bull side of the Llewellin line, he was said to be the greatest grouse dog that ever lived. Her Grandfather is Highway Dan. National Champion. Sorry again 10 Framer. G
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Offline 10framer

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2014, 02:11:56 pm »
she was spotted a few miles from here a couple of days ago but i haven't found her.  still got some hope on one of us finding the other.
her line has too much nose in them for me.  i'm sure she got on the trail of something besides a squirrel and got herself lost.  i had thought she may have been stolen because she's never ranged far from my place before this. 
usually i let them out in the morning and they are at the door in about ten minutes ready for breakfast but my male took off too and didn't come back until that night.  he generally checks back in in less than 30 minutes any time he's out.

Offline 10framer

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2014, 02:13:50 pm »
oh, i thought you were saying your dogs were feist.  a lot of people cross them with bird dogs around here but it's usually german short hairs. 

Offline Lone

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2014, 10:05:55 am »
10 framer, I don't think it's easy to stop some dogs or breeds of dogs once they're in the habit of killing chickens.  I'm having all sorts of issues having just inherited another 6 dogs on top of my own to look after.  The cattle dog will always kill chickens around the back of the house but not the front, and any that fly in the yard.  Keeping her out of those areas is the only thing to work.  I'm trying to start young with her little pup as she's the spitting image with the same habits. She gets a little switch if she even looks at them.  She is trying to grab the tails now.
On top of that, in the past two days, 2 different dogs have found ways to jump two different fences.  The cattle dog is faithful and only jumps to be where I am.  But my own terror of a dog found her way out, and takes a lot of fuel and time to catch.  She is half kelpie and half border collie, so crazy two ways.  I have to ride the bike at 50kph till she wears out and lets me catch her.  The other day though, when she wearied, she went to the yard for a swim instead, revived, chased the weaners into the yard, back to the fence, over to the humpy and back, and I had to ride the bike for another half an hour to settle her.  She chases roos also, so I reckon I should run her with a lead on now and try not to give her a chance to stray.  I am seriously considering one of those zappy collars to discourage running the opposite way when I call.  She is good in a controlled situation, and will come on the end of a long rope, but she won't even sit when she's out in the paddock.  I understand the collars are not easy to use for this behaviour, but I have tried other things.
I don't like to keep dogs in cages or on chains, so I'm sure I will never end up with a well trained working dog.
Geoff, if you would like a working holiday erecting fences, I'll pay you in good queensland honey*  :)

By the way, 10 framer, the old crippled blind dog who has used more than 9 lives I reckon, made an amazing trip of 3 or 4 miles in the heat (over 100f) not long ago.  He was gone 10 days, then a neighbour found him in a gully with no water, an answer to prayer. He will become famous soon as his picture is going into a book of working dogs.

Lone

*Won a first prize at the show last week

Offline biggraham610

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2014, 12:18:27 pm »
she was spotted a few miles from here a couple of days ago but i haven't found her.  still got some hope on one of us finding the other.
her line has too much nose in them for me.  i'm sure she got on the trail of something besides a squirrel and got herself lost.  i had thought she may have been stolen because she's never ranged far from my place before this. 
usually i let them out in the morning and they are at the door in about ten minutes ready for breakfast but my male took off too and didn't come back until that night.  he generally checks back in in less than 30 minutes any time he's out.
Thats good that she has been spotted. Hopefully you will get her back. I dont know how old your male is but, Ive had older dogs lead off young ones it seems on purpose. I always work my young ones alone till I get Good Control. Good luck. Keep the faith. G
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Offline 10framer

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Re: breaking my dogs from chasing my chickens
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2014, 02:46:38 pm »
graham,
she's got the better nose of the two.  but she also tended to wander farther. 
without here around bo checks back in in less than 30 minutes when she was here they were staying out longer and longer the week before she took off.  my problem is i have very few squirrels on my place but a lot nearby.