When is it safe to separate the brood nest with an empty box between?

[tjc1]

I was trying to move the brood nest out of the super that I had on top of a deep, so that I could put a medium between them and return the super to just honey storage. A few days ago, I put on an excluder between the super and deep, hoping that the queen was in the deep. Checked today and nope, she was in the super... which now has more brood of course. Anyway, I got her down below, but now it'll be 23 days before all that brood is hatched. That seems too long to go before I give them another (medium) box, which I had wanted to put on top of the deep so they can move up. At some point between now and then will it be safe to put the medium in there, or do I risk losing the brood in the super? I amaze myself that I can get myself into such messes!

[RayMarler]

I would leave it until the brood is all emerged. The queen lays up a frame every other day. It will take her 20 days to lay up 10 frames. As the brood above emerges, they'll move honey into the cells to keep the queen with laying room below. I'd wait and add the medium in between later, after the top has emerged and is mostly honey.

[BeeMaster2]

Why not just put the new super on top of the other super and let the queen use both boxes for brood. Less chance of forcing them to swarm that way plus you don't need the excluder because the queen has enough room for the brood. Bees meke more honey if they do not have to fight an excluder. None of my hives have an excluder.
Jim

[tjc1]

This is the first time I've ever had cause to use an excluder - the only reason was to try to get the super off so that I could move to using mediums, and keep the supers for honey. I wanted to get the medium on soon that I don't encourage swarming conditions. I wonder at this point about putting the medium UNDER the deep...? Though I understand that most bees prefer to move up and not down...

[Joe D]

That's what I would do.  Good luck




Joe

[Jim134]

This is the first time I've ever had cause to use an excluder - the only reason was to try to get the super off so that I could move to using mediums, and keep the supers for honey. I wanted to get the medium on soon that I don't encourage swarming conditions. I wonder at this point about putting the medium UNDER the deep...? Though I understand that most bees prefer to move up and not down...

tjc1 .........


   The first thing that you'd need to know is your brood nest you want to end up with is going to medium's or deep's ??

   If you're going to go with two deep's at the end just put your second deep on the bottom you will be done.

If I wanted deep's as a brood nest I would put the second one on NOW...

< I wonder at this point about putting the medium UNDER the deep...? Though I understand that most bees prefer to move up and not down... >


          Bee's work down during the summer and up during the winter.
  

    I hope this helps you out a little..
 

       This one of the very scenario why I went to all mediums 10 frame boxes in the mid eighties. I am very glad I did go to all mediums.

              


               BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[tjc1]

Thanks, Jim. I'm caught between wanting to move towards mediums without  losing all my deep equipment and comb. So I was thinking of just keeping one deep on the bottom (so i would ever have to lift it up - just inspect in place) with a medium on top of it (and another if necessary) as the brood area, and supers for honey harvesting.

[Vance G]

You can do it that way.  I wintered some colonies with a deep and a medium because I was toying with standardizing on all mediums for brood and supers.  After I shook out a drone layer hive and had to shake 33 frames instead of 22, I decided that may not be the way I want to go just yet!   I am only 63 and may wait til I am old before switching.  A deep and a medium worked, but if the truth be known, you get some incredible strong overwintered colonies out of three deeps for wintering.  I may go more to that protocol.  It is the wintering plan the University of Minnesota advocates. 

[BeeMaster2]

Thanks, Jim. I'm caught between wanting to move towards mediums without  losing all my deep equipment and comb. So I was thinking of just keeping one deep on the bottom (so i would ever have to lift it up - just inspect in place) with a medium on top of it (and another if necessary) as the brood area, and supers for honey harvesting.

With deeps and mediums, you can move a medium frame into a deep but not vice versa. I do put 5 medium frames in a deep nuc and then they build below the frames and I cut it off and put them in frames. I usually end up with 8 medium frames from a 5 frame deep using medium frames.
If you have a table saw, you can cut the deeps to make them medium supers. I have also used the cut off piece to convert shallows into mediums
Jim

[BeeMaster2]

Also if you have drawn deep frames you can cut them down to the size of a medium. I have run them through my extractor with no problems. I use a bandsaw to cut them.
Jim

[tjc1]

Hi Jim, Do you nail a bottom piece back on somehow after the cut-down, or just leave it open?

[BeeMaster2]

Hi Jim, Do you nail a bottom piece back on somehow after the cut-down, or just leave it open?

I tried to come up with a good way to add a board to the bottom of the frame but did not find one. I just cut them off and add pins to hold the plastic in place. I had about 10 of them go through the extractor with no failures.
Jim