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Author Topic: Wax Dipping Woodenware  (Read 21393 times)

Offline Shanevrr

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Wax Dipping Woodenware
« on: February 13, 2012, 09:05:58 pm »
Does anyone have experiance with this and is it cost effective?  My questions are how long does it last,  what does it look like long term,  do the bees use it all, 

Whats the best method and how much should you do at one time?
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2012, 01:34:21 am »
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline Shanevrr

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2012, 08:15:59 pm »
nice instructions mr bush....but can you tell me this.  how long does it last,  and what does it look like long term,
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2012, 12:49:15 am »
I started doing it in 2007.  So far so good.  Most of them look like new.  I can't say what they do in the long term until I get there.  :)  But reports from others are it lasts as long as the box.
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Offline Shanevrr

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2012, 10:03:01 pm »
Thanks,  where can I find material?  I looked at mannlake and didnt see anything.  I have 100 lbs of beewax,  so I guess I need pariffin, and gum rosin for rest.  I getting ready to build my tank.  Im going for 6 deeps at once.  Any special features you wish you would have done?
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 05:41:53 am »
I bought the gum rosin from mann lake.  I don't see it in the catalog anymore, but you could call.   I find such things are often still available.  If not:
http://catalog.pcchem.com/item/paint-coatings-ink-adhesive-and-sealant-chemicals/resins-plasticizers/item-2303

I used just beeswax and rosin, but most use paraffin and rosin.

I would build a larger tank if I were doing it again in the volume I've been doing it.  I can do 1 full box and two half boxes.  And then I pull the full, flip the halves and add one more to finish the first two halves and one more.  So I get four boxes done every two batches, which averages two a batch.  I would build it to do four at least if I were doing it again... but that takes more wax to fill it...
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline Shanevrr

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2012, 11:11:19 pm »
can you guess at how much they soak up?
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 11:38:40 pm »
I dipped probably six hundred boxes, 250 bottoms, 200 tops, 30 or 40 five frame nucs, 50 or so four way and two way mating nucs and I went through 100 pounds of rosin and 200 pounds of beeswax but the tank is still full... and that is probably 20 or 30 pounds of rosin and 60 pounds of beeswax.  I don't know what that comes to exactly...
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Offline Grandpa Jim

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 11:58:16 pm »
This paper (page 2) says about 30 grams (about 1oz) per deep hive body

http://www.queenrightcolonies.com/uploads/HotWaxDippingofBeehives.pdf

Offline Grandpa Jim

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2012, 06:18:24 pm »
[imghttp://

Uploaded with ImageShack.us][/img]

I am not quite big enough to justify a custom made tank and several hundred pounds of wax to dip my woodware, but hate painting enough to figure out another way.  The pan pictured came with my business 25 years ago, it is 1/4 inch aluminum (almost went to the recyclers several times)  Restaurant supply houses still sell a similar pan (about $150.).  I can do one side at a time so obviously it takes longer but it only took 9 pounds of wax and 9 pounds of Microcrystalline wax to get started and only 30 minutes to get up to temp.  Once up to temp one burner was able to maintain temp.  After 20 supers, still plenty of wax to do another 20 or more.

I worked inside, not recommended in a home.  I was under a commercial exhaust hood to keep the slight amount of smoke exhausting to the outside.

I did each side for 8 minutes so for 2 mediums, just over 1/2 hour.   Bottom boards do not fit, but could be done from corner to corner in the pan (getting the edges no problem) and than brushed hot wax onto the center of the board.  Not as good as submerging, but as the edges cooked I kept putting hot wax on the center and you could see foaming as the wood got hotter.

Jim

« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 09:41:36 pm by Grandpa Jim »

Offline Shanevrr

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2012, 10:22:12 pm »
Thanks for the info,  I called mannlake and they have everything I need.  BUT they told me you have to dip every three years,  which surprised me.  I thought it would last longer than that.  paint last longer than that.  I really want to dip but not every three years.  Michael you say yours has lasted 5 years no issues?
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2012, 01:10:50 am »
I dipped mine in 2006 or 2007 and they mostly look like new.  Some grain seems to absorb it less and that has turned a little gray in places, but most looks like brand new wood.  People who do it seem to think it lasts a lot longer than that... I won't be able to say for a few more years... :)
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline Cheech

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2012, 03:41:10 am »
does anyone have experience dipping with a combination of wax and linseed oil.  i'v heard of people painting with this combination, but not dipping like whats been suggested here.
can't seem to locate gum rosin here in Jamaica, seems no one in the paint manufacturing industry has ever heard of the product.  i can get parafin wax in 50lb slabs, and raw linseed oil by the gallon.

cheers

Offline CapnChkn

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2012, 12:39:16 pm »
I wouldn't.  I know oily linseed oil rags can spontaneously combust.  The hardware variety also has compounds to assist in curing.  I can see using it on the outside of the hive, "dipping" would permeate all the pores with this stuff.  At some point the bees will chew on something, which is why beeks avoid using any potential problem stuff.

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Offline Jim 134

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2012, 02:41:13 pm »
Now this is the one I like.

http://youtu.be/f5UUJT8ooVE


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Offline fallout588

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2012, 11:22:16 pm »
That is a nice setup. Good idea with the tank lid holding the boxes down and nice assembly jigs.

Offline GDRankin

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2014, 01:53:47 am »
Nice stuff here guys.
I realize this is an old thread, but if anyone is still watching it, I'd be curious to know about the updated results. Meaning, at the time of these posts, two years ago, things were still holding up well . . . how are they now?
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Offline Sebashtion H.

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2017, 11:47:29 am »
michael bush how are the hives holding up that you dipped years ago?

also had a some questions i seen a video of the guy in the garage assembling his hives and dipping the same night, the one with the awesome clamp and painting jigs......

being a woodworker i know the glues are water clean up, with that said in the video he glues them and seems to dip them the same time (no  24hr cure time) wouldn't this just void the gluing aspect, and the fact you are cooking the boxes at a high temp would that not just melt out the glue even if it is cured.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2017, 02:19:49 pm »
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Hives1.jpg

These were dipped in 2004 and have been in the weather every since.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2017, 02:29:14 pm »
being a woodworker i know the glues are water clean up, with that said in the video he glues them and seems to dip them the same time (no  24hr cure time) wouldn't this just void the gluing aspect, and the fact you are cooking the boxes at a high temp would that not just melt out the glue even if it is cured.

Finger joints don't need glue if you can keep the wood from rotting around the nails and mating surfaces.
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Offline Sebashtion H.

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2017, 01:33:18 am »
being a woodworker i know the glues are water clean up, with that said in the video he glues them and seems to dip them the same time (no  24hr cure time) wouldn't this just void the gluing aspect, and the fact you are cooking the boxes at a high temp would that not just melt out the glue even if it is cured.

Finger joints don't need glue if you can keep the wood from rotting around the nails and mating surfaces.
thanks, not trying to be rude but that didnt answer or help with the question of hot wax melting or washing the glue out and some of us that don't build with finger joints but build with rabbits.

Offline Sebashtion H.

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2017, 01:34:28 am »
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Hives1.jpg

These were dipped in 2004 and have been in the weather every since.

thank you Michael they look great!!!!! I love the aged look on beehives!!!

Offline Acebird

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2017, 10:04:52 am »
thanks, not trying to be rude but that didnt answer or help with the question of hot wax melting or washing the glue out and some of us that don't build with finger joints but build with rabbits.

Most likely the glue is toast.
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Offline Live Oak

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2019, 03:53:20 pm »
I dipped mine in 2006 or 2007 and they mostly look like new.  Some grain seems to absorb it less and that has turned a little gray in places, but most looks like brand new wood.  People who do it seem to think it lasts a lot longer than that... I won't be able to say for a few more years... :)

Michael, I DO realize this is a very old thread but it seems that after I conducted a search that it is apparently the only one on this topic.  I recently purchased a 50 gallon stainless steel pot for Beverage Depot as well as about 200 lbs. of micro-crystalline and 240 lbs. of 130 degree paraffin wax from Aztec.  I already have a Bayou Classic KAB6 Bayou Cooker 210,000 btu propane burner.  I am going to try starting off with a 50/50 mix of the micro-crystalline and paraffin wax and adjust from there.  I am going to eventually experiment with gradually adding bees wax in place of the paraffin once I use up the paraffin wax as I found out it has an approx. 147 degree melting point.  In theory it should be a good fit with the micro-crystalline wax which as a 180 degree melt point. 

I guess my questions are, have you done any more wax dipping since back in 2007/2008?  Before I purchased the wax dipping equipment/supplies, I tried buying some wax dipped woodware that was dipping in a mix of 130 degree paraffin wax and gum rosin.  It felt greasy and I can already tell I will not like it once the temperatures are up in the 90's +.  Hence why I purchased the micro-crystaline wax. 

I see you have had a number of questions asking you about how your wax dipped boxes are holding up so I won't add to them but I WILL ask now that you have gone the wax dipping route and have had a number of years of use and experience with it, what if anything would you do differently, change, NOT do, etc. ? 

With over 100 hives and plans to double that this season, I am soooooooo tired of painting boxes only to see them last maybe 4 or 5 years and in more than a few cases much less due to fire ants and other ants hollowing out the boxes building nests.  I have 50 brand new 6 frame nucs that I want to start off with wax dipping and I hope to gradually phase in replacement boxes, etc. as my other woodware gets replaced. 

I tried starting off on the smallest scale I could think of with the 50 gallon pot and may consider upgrading to the wax dipping tank that Ian G posted over on Beesource.  He has over $5,000 tied up in that wax dipping tank and wax.  That was just a bit more than I wanted to try starting off with being that I have never used wax dipped woodware until this year and as I am apparently observing unless you tell me otherwise, you have not wax dipped any woodware since 2007/2008???  That is a LOT of money tied up in a wax dipping tank that gets use only a few times in 5 years unless I decide to wax dip for other beekeepers and I am not even sure there is much if any demand for it. 

Thanks in advance for your reply to this old thread and please feel free to include any other thoughts or suggestion you may have on this topic. 

Offline beeman2009

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2019, 10:55:35 am »
Live Oak,
beeman here from north of you in Portland. I built  my own wax dipping setup this past winter for the same reason. I have no hands on field experience yet but made my decision based on what I've read & know about wood properties. Also ran across a beekeeper in College Grove TN that showed me some wax dipped cypress boxes he was using that he said he bought over 20 years ago. All I can tell you is they looked almost new!!! He had some of them stored outside, uncovered & said he always stores them that way. So I thought I would try it myself. Was wondering if you would mind sharing your wax source info? That stuff is pricey$$$$

Thanks in advance. Let me know how it works for you.
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Offline Live Oak

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2019, 01:05:29 pm »
Was wondering if you would mind sharing your wax source info? That stuff is pricey$$$$

Thanks in advance. Let me know how it works for you.

Sure thing!   I purchased my wax from Aztec.  They are located in Knoxville, TN.  Here is a link to the waxes they carry:

https://www.candlemaking.com/candlemaking/wholesale-wax.html

Based on their recommendations and the best price I got the wax linked below:

https://www.candlemaking.com/igi-5715-microcrystaline-wax-66lb-case.html

https://www.candlemaking.com/best-seller-igi-1230-multi-purpose-wax-60lb-case.html

Yes INDEED it IS very expensive.  The wax typically will cost more than the wax dipping tank, lid, burner, gloves, and other things needed to dip. 


Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2019, 10:07:33 am »
>Michael, I DO realize this is a very old thread but it seems that after I conducted a search that it is apparently the only one on this topic.  I recently purchased a 50 gallon stainless steel pot for Beverage Depot as well as about 200 lbs. of micro-crystalline and 240 lbs. of 130 degree paraffin wax from Aztec.  I already have a Bayou Classic KAB6 Bayou Cooker 210,000 btu propane burner.  I am going to try starting off with a 50/50 mix of the micro-crystalline and paraffin wax and adjust from there.  I am going to eventually experiment with gradually adding bees wax in place of the paraffin once I use up the paraffin wax as I found out it has an approx. 147 degree melting point.  In theory it should be a good fit with the micro-crystalline wax which as a 180 degree melt point. 

>I guess my questions are, have you done any more wax dipping since back in 2007/2008?

Most every year since 2012.

> Before I purchased the wax dipping equipment/supplies, I tried buying some wax dipped woodware that was dipping in a mix of 130 degree paraffin wax and gum rosin.  It felt greasy and I can already tell I will not like it once the temperatures are up in the 90's +.  Hence why I purchased the micro-crystaline wax. 

That is not NEARLY hot enough.  I'm using beeswax and rosin, but anything below 250 F won't cook the wood which is what you need to do.  Anything significantly over 250 F causes issues with boiling over.  You need to cook them for 10 minutes.  If the water isn't boiling in the wood you're not really accomplishing anything.

>I see you have had a number of questions asking you about how your wax dipped boxes are holding up so I won't add to them but I WILL ask now that you have gone the wax dipping route and have had a number of years of use and experience with it, what if anything would you do differently, change, NOT do, etc. ? 

I'd love to have a slightly bigger tank and I'd love to make one that is heated by pressurized steam to 250 F and eliminate the open flame of my old gas stove.  But so far I haven't got that done.

>With over 100 hives and plans to double that this season, I am soooooooo tired of painting boxes only to see them last maybe 4 or 5 years and in more than a few cases much less due to fire ants and other ants hollowing out the boxes building nests.  I have 50 brand new 6 frame nucs that I want to start off with wax dipping and I hope to gradually phase in replacement boxes, etc. as my other woodware gets replaced. 

I wouldn't say that cooking them is less work, but I think the wood lasts longer.

>I tried starting off on the smallest scale I could think of with the 50 gallon pot and may consider upgrading to the wax dipping tank that Ian G posted over on Beesource.  He has over $5,000 tied up in that wax dipping tank and wax.  That was just a bit more than I wanted to try starting off with being that I have never used wax dipped woodware until this year and as I am apparently observing unless you tell me otherwise, you have not wax dipped any woodware since 2007/2008???  That is a LOT of money tied up in a wax dipping tank that gets use only a few times in 5 years unless I decide to wax dip for other beekeepers and I am not even sure there is much if any demand for it. 

Here we are dipping in 2016: http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BeeCamp2016/DippingBoxes2.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BeeCamp2016/DippingBoxes1.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BeeCamp2016/DippingBoxes2.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BeeCamp2016/DippingBoxes3.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BeeCamp2016/DippingBoxes4.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BeeCamp2016/DippingBoxes5.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BeeCamp2016/DippingBoxes6.jpg

Here we are dipping in 2018: http://www.bushfarms.com/images/BeeCamp2018/WaxDippingBoxes.jpg

My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline Live Oak

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2019, 02:24:32 pm »
Thanks Michael!  That was very helpful.  I see you even got Hillary to help with the dipping.  Cool!  When I get started dipping, I'll get some pictures and post them for you. 

Offline William Bagwell

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2020, 10:06:27 am »
Noticed in Michael's 2018 photo they were dipping previously painted boxes. Can you also dip wooden ware that has been linseed oiled? Have very little painted equipment, just some I bought used. Very first hive was straight linseed oil, have since have thinned it with odorless mineral spirits so it penetrates better and drys quicker.

Do I need a thermometer? Or just gage the temp by how much it is boiling? Will be working outdoors in either case...

Have a long steam table pan on order so this will be a tiny rig to do one side / edge at a time. Mainly screen bottom boards and a pollen trap. Can not afford to fill a large tank even if I had one :sad:

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2020, 12:29:22 pm »
>Can you also dip wooden ware that has been linseed oiled?

I'm sure you could.  Yes, I dip old painted ones as well as new ones and sometimes if they were dipped before I might do it again if they start looking dried out.
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Offline William Bagwell

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Re: Wax Dipping Woodenware
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2020, 09:56:44 pm »
Thank you! And I now know I do need a thermometer. Not sure how I missed that but it had been a few months since I read your page on wax dipping.

Disappointed in my stainless steel steam table pan. Just a tiny bit too short to do the long edge of thin wooden ware. Thought it would be ideal (other than labor intensive) for items with screens since you do not want wax all over the screen. Back to the drawing board...

Also waiting to hear back from a local source for wax. They also have gum rosin which the candle supply company Live Oak posted does not. If their prices are not too high can save a bit on shipping by picking it up.