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Author Topic: Foundationless question  (Read 6193 times)

Offline Acebird

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Re: Foundationless question
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2011, 09:34:36 am »
 
Quote
If you just break it out you have a protuberance on one side of the frame, NOT in the center.

Then when you roll the break out piece 90 deg. you must also offset it a little from the other side or it too will be off center right?

Many of the foundationless frames That I have seen pictures of get drawn out to the sides and the bottom but not touching.  If you glued a Popsicle stick in the center of the sides and the bottom will the bees attach the comb sooner so you could eliminate the need for the wires?

How long would it take for this to happen?
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Offline jmblakeney

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Re: Foundationless question
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2011, 09:58:01 am »
I have been reading up on that Ace.  According to the CIG to Beekeeping they don't fill it out to the edges, no matter what the size.  This is for a vibration effect.  Like when they do the waggle dance.  If the comb isn't attached on three sides, then the waggle can be felt easier than if it is attached.  Apparently that is very important due to it being completely dark in the hive.  I think they also said that even if you are doing foundation that they will sometimes chew out the edges of it so this vibration can be felt better. 
All that is according to what I have read.  I don't have any experience or bees yet.  Gosh I can't wait.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2011, 10:11:50 am by jmblakeney »
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Offline hardwood

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Re: Foundationless question
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2011, 10:15:49 am »
In my experience they will eventually build the comb out to the side and bottom bars, it just takes them a while. They tend to leave a "bee space" especially at the bottom but will fill the gap soon enough.

Scott
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Foundationless question
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2011, 10:24:54 am »
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They tend to leave a "bee space" especially at the bottom but will fill the gap soon enough.

Could you hazard a guess as to how long this process would take?  Any comment as to whether the Popsicle sticks would help shorten the time?
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Offline hardwood

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Re: Foundationless question
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2011, 10:58:27 am »
Couldn't say about the extra Popsicle sticks as I've never tried them. The time that it takes to fill in the extra spaces seems to depend on the flow and condition of the hive. I tend to keep my hives strong and crowded as a defense against SHB so I think they fill in the gaps pretty quickly...maybe a month or two.

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Foundationless question
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2011, 11:06:33 am »
>Then when you roll the break out piece 90 deg. you must also offset it a little from the other side or it too will be off center right?

No.  It will be dead center.  The groove is 1/8".  The wedge is 1/8" when you put it back where the groove used to be it will be dead center.
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Offline sterling

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Re: Foundationless question
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2011, 12:00:45 pm »
W.T. Kelly sells foundationless frames. Has anybody used them? if so do their guides do the job they are supposed to?
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Offline Robo

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Re: Foundationless question
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2011, 01:56:39 pm »
Quote from: Acebird on February 12, 2011, 09:34:36 am
Many of the foundationless frames That I have seen pictures of get drawn out to the sides and the bottom but not touching.  If you glued a Popsicle stick in the center of the sides and the bottom will the bees attach the comb sooner so you could eliminate the need for the wires?
Perhaps, but why waste the effort, wiring is a lot easier.


Quote
How long would it take for this to happen?

months, years, never.......  All depends on the hive and location.   The weather in the south permit bees to build more comb than in the north.

I have some,  that never get drawn to the sides or bottom.  The one shown in my initial post is about 3 years old. As the comb gets older, there is less and less chance that the bees will add to it.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Foundationless question
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2011, 04:55:49 pm »
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The weather in the south permit bees to build more comb than in the north.

I thought it was dependant on nectar flow.  From what I am hearing in the south flow is strong in the spring  but dies off early.  Or are you speaking of the warmer weather allowing you to feed longer?

That monster frame in the photo appears to have side and bottom guides.

One would have to ask, and I'd be the one, if the bees are not going to attach to the bottom and sides then why have a frame at all?  Ha, so you can string the wire supports!
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Offline schawee

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Re: Foundationless question
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2011, 06:20:22 pm »
sterling, i use walter kelly foundationless frames and they are ok.some hives draw them out with no problem and some kind of mess it up alittle.you have to keep an eye on them when they are drawing them out.   ...schawee
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