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Author Topic: makeing foundation  (Read 578 times)

Offline Acebird

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2011, 03:29:50 pm »
Quote
you would burn through a lot of electrodes trying to do this with edm).


http://www.rotometrics.com/roto/WebContent.nsf/ProdLookup/8E41F44EDDA6534086257444006FC59A?openDocument&dl=en

There is so much for you to learn.  The more populated the pattern the less you have to burn.

For specialty conductive adhesives I had these dies burned to as much as .180 blade heighth.
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Offline WPG

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2011, 12:37:41 am »
Deknow,

Great pics.

Do you know what metal the embossing rollers are?

The protrusions on Dee's mill look like a bunch of 1/2 of little cubes stuck on with one corner sticking up and the valleys going up & down around them. I thought they would be flatter protrusions.

 Maybe my eyes playing tricks on me.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2011, 12:26:33 pm »
Cubes? :?

They have to be pyramids with a grove around the outside.  The top and bottom embosser have to be aligned correctly (like meshing gears) in order to prevent variations in web thickness.
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Offline Jim 134

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2011, 02:19:06 pm »
Deknow,

Great pics.

Do you know what metal the embossing rollers are?

The protrusions on Dee's mill look like a bunch of 1/2 of little cubes stuck on with one corner sticking up and the valleys going up & down around them. I thought they would be flatter protrusions.

 Maybe my eyes playing tricks on me.


 I see  little cubes but I know it is not.


                BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline WPG

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2011, 07:50:50 pm »
Thanks Jim

There is so much for you to learn.  The more populated the pattern the less you have to burn.

That sounds like:
The more post holes I have to dig, the less dirt I have to move.
Yes, teach me how, oh learned one.


Quote from: Acebird link=topic=31272
They have to be pyramids with groves around the outside...

What are you talking about?
All the pyramids in South America and Egypt that I ever heard of are 4-sided with the bottom edges all on the same plane.

Are you saying all parts of the grooves are equi-distant from the center of the roller?

I know the rollers have to be syncronized so the points don't hit each other.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2011, 09:05:14 am »
A pyramid (from Greek "πυραμίς" – pyramis[1]) is a structure where the outer surfaces are triangular and converge at a point. The base of a pyramid can be trilateral, quadrilateral, or any polygon shape,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid

You have to a least know the basics.
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Offline WPG

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2011, 06:16:31 pm »
You have to a least know the basics.

Yep, sure does help.
I knew the basics(and just possibly a little more) before you were born.
Since you haven't used a wax embossing mill, can't even recognise one in a picture, are in your first year with one hive I would appreciate you not lecturing the rest of us.

You didn't answer the important question. Are you saying all parts of the grooves are equi-distant from the center of the roller?

Please look at those closeup pictures again. Those protrusions are not pyramids.
The sides are not triangles.
They appear to be square, but are most likely diamond shaped.

You may have talents, training and experience  that will be of great help on the forums and to the bee industry, but your observation and analytical skills need improvement.

I'm continually working on mine, as well as patience and tolerance.
Sometimes with success, sometimes not.

I'm on these forums to learn.

Since there are more people here(that I can count on my fingers & toes), that have more knowledge, experience and expertice than I, it is worth wading thru the garden fertilizer.
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Offline Robo

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2011, 07:27:50 pm »
WPG,  you are correct. The best way to describe them is looking down the corner of a cube.   This is what gives the 'y'  and 'inverted y'  in the bottom of the cells that Michael Housel refers to when positioning combs.




Here is a good article, written by Dee, about Housel Positioning.

http://www.beesource.com/point-of-view/ed-dee-lusby/more-on-small-cell-foundation-for-mite-control/housel-positioning-how-i-view-its-importance-to-beekeeping/
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Offline Acebird

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2011, 08:19:27 pm »
Quote
You didn't answer the important question. Are you saying all parts of the grooves are equi-distant from the center of the roller?

No but I am not sure you know what you are asking.


Quote
WPG,  you are correct. The best way to describe them is looking down the corner of a cube.   This is what gives the 'y'  and 'inverted y'  in the bottom of the cells that Michael Housel refers to when positioning combs.

Whew, what a lot of bunk.  On one side of the frame the Y will be oriented one way and on the other side the Y will be the other.  Once the bees use the foundation and reuse the comb it will be more like a dome on the inside.  Who cares?  I am sure the bees don’t.  I don’t know for a fact but my guess is the bees use the Y formation because it uses less wax than any other geometry.  They are in a hurry to creater cells with the least amount of resources.

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Offline Jim 134

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2011, 08:22:24 pm »

Robo ......





  I have been doing this for years but on top of the frames so I can see it.


   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline Jim 134

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2011, 08:34:56 pm »
  Who cares?  I am sure the bees don’t. 


  :roll: Are you sure the bee don't  :?


   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline Acebird

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2011, 08:42:48 pm »
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Are you sure the bee don't 


That part I am sure.  I would bet if you made foundation as a circle instead of a hexagon they would still use it.  All the drone cells that I have seen are perfect circles.  The issue is the wax consumption.
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Offline Robo

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2011, 09:19:39 pm »
Here ya go Jim....

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison



Offline Jim 134

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2011, 10:11:14 pm »
Here ya go Jim....




Robo.......




Like this
 

  BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline deknow

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2011, 11:53:51 pm »
I am sure the bees don’t.

I am sure that you don't know enough to make that statement.

I don't know if the bees care (many claim they do), but the fact is, when the bees build a natural broodnest (with no foundation, guides, etc), they tend keep the comb orientation consistent towards the middle.  The idea that comb could be reversed or moved is a rather new one in the history of bees.  Why anyone would assume that something the bees do consistently "doesn't matter to the bees" is beyond me.

deknow

Offline WPG

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Re: makeing foundation
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2011, 02:37:59 am »
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You didn't answer the important question. Are you saying all parts of the grooves are equi-distant from the center of the roller?

No but I am not sure you know what you are asking.

I know exactly what I'm asking.
Please give a full answer.


Quote
Whew, what a lot of bunk.

Are you refering to Dee Lusby's report?

I'd love to see you back her in a corner with your obnoxious silly assertions.
She'd wipe her boots on you.

No, I suppose she really wouldn't.
She has better things to do.
She knows what she knows by actually doing.
She knows what it takes to work bees successfully.
She knows what it takes to work hundreds of hives of bees successfully.
Personally.

Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder, Acebird?
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